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View Full Version : Should Sotnikova Follow The Example of Asada & Kostner?



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Autumn_girl
12-05-2011, 04:44 PM
Adelina said in the interview that she is working on different 3-3s and learning 3F-3T because she wants to be able to change combos in her programs for different competitions and 3T in the end puts less pressure on her leg than 3Lo. But 3Lo as the second jump is easier for her than 3T (except 2A-3T combo)

floskate
12-05-2011, 08:41 PM
I seem to remember Mao not doing the triple axel early in the 2007-08 season. In fact her jump layouts were pretty conservative for her until she turned up at the GPF, bombed the SP and then stormed the long with a 3x and two different 3-3's. I think Mao will definitely try the triple axel later in the season which will mean she would be attempting all 6 triple jumps. Considering hardly any of the girls can do the usual five cleanly, her attempting 6 (with a likely flutz admittedly) isn't really scaling back on tech content, rather re-distributing the TES points if you like ;)

Louis
12-05-2011, 09:00 PM
For me, Sotnikova has some of the ugliest triple-triple combinations I've ever seen. Her triple flutz-squat-triple loop deserves -3 even when it's clean, and the double axel-lean over-triple toe maybe -2. If she were American, we'd never hear the end of it :drama:.

OTOH, Tukt (not even going to attempt to spell it) has some of the prettiest triple-triple combinations I've ever seen. Her technique, IMO, is a million times better, and her limitations will be easier to address in the long-term.

NMURA
12-05-2011, 11:20 PM
At least, Asada has never abandoned the 3A. She says "definitely going for the 3A at the Final." Let's see how things work out.

Triple Butz
12-05-2011, 11:36 PM
For me, Sotnikova has some of the ugliest triple-triple combinations I've ever seen. Her triple flutz-squat-triple loop deserves -3 even when it's clean, and the double axel-lean over-triple toe maybe -2. If she were American, we'd never hear the end of it :drama:.

OTOH, Tukt (not even going to attempt to spell it) has some of the prettiest triple-triple combinations I've ever seen. Her technique, IMO, is a million times better, and her limitations will be easier to address in the long-term.

I definitely disagree. Yes, Adelina has a flutz, but her jumps MUCH bigger than Elizaveta's and she carries more speed in and out of them. Her landing positions are also strong and well-extended as opposed to that hunched over lowered back that we see with Tukt.

I don't know what you mean about her 2a/3t. The technique and the height and flow are out of this world!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Utt253GRpCA#t=1m52s

THAT deserves a -2? In what universe??

IceAlisa
12-06-2011, 01:56 AM
For me, Sotnikova has some of the ugliest triple-triple combinations I've ever seen. Her triple flutz-squat-triple loop deserves -3 even when it's clean, and the double axel-lean over-triple toe maybe -2. If she were American, we'd never hear the end of it :drama:.

OTOH, Tukt (not even going to attempt to spell it) has some of the prettiest triple-triple combinations I've ever seen. Her technique, IMO, is a million times better, and her limitations will be easier to address in the long-term.

Do you mean what we are seeing from her now or last season? Or both? Because some technique has definitely unraveled this season.

love_skate2011
12-06-2011, 05:32 AM
reagrding Adelina's flutz she has always done that most of the time
and not just because she doesnt get an edge call for that at comp.
she needs to change her technique and she still has huge time to improve
she is only 15

but for the meantime I agree she needs to keep trying with her
Triple Lutz Triple Loop, she will get into that soon, remember
she had deal with both a growth spurt and huge pressure
hopefully by next season that will ease into her progress

she grew a lot but she'll be fine.
Adelina has already survived her 1st growth spurt back in 2009
its too early to always compare Adelina with Elizaveta as both are too young
anything can still happen, although my prediction for the long run
with regards to the improvements Adelina will surpass Lisa !

koatcue
12-06-2011, 11:05 AM
For me, Sotnikova has some of the ugliest triple-triple combinations I've ever seen. Her triple flutz-squat-triple loop deserves -3 even when it's clean, and the double axel-lean over-triple toe maybe -2. If she were American, we'd never hear the end of it :drama:.

OTOH, Tukt (not even going to attempt to spell it) has some of the prettiest triple-triple combinations I've ever seen. Her technique, IMO, is a million times better, and her limitations will be easier to address in the long-term.

Why do you think her jumps are so bad? This season has just started...Maybe her injury influenced the quality of her skating + pressure, but we can't say she deserves -3 for her jumps,especially clean ones

Louis
12-06-2011, 03:13 PM
Does the visible squat leading into the triple loop not bother anyone else?

Or the hunching forward to pick in for the triple toe?

IMO, her technique is as jarring as Caroline Zhang's mule kick. The jump is nice in the air, but the takeoff is awful and the landing often wobbles from outside edge to inside edge.

Maybe it's just me. :confused:

IceAlisa
12-06-2011, 04:56 PM
I am going to pay closer attention but do you have any specific programs where it's really evident, Louis? If so, could you please link? Thanks.

Vash01
12-06-2011, 05:11 PM
Does the visible squat leading into the triple loop not bother anyone else?

Or the hunching forward to pick in for the triple toe?

IMO, her technique is as jarring as Caroline Zhang's mule kick. The jump is nice in the air, but the takeoff is awful and the landing often wobbles from outside edge to inside edge.

Maybe it's just me. :confused:

Those flaws are not deserving of -3GOE. I have seen a lot worse.

briancoogaert
12-06-2011, 05:58 PM
Does the visible squat leading into the triple loop not bother anyone else?

Or the hunching forward to pick in for the triple toe?

IMO, her technique is as jarring as Caroline Zhang's mule kick. The jump is nice in the air, but the takeoff is awful and the landing often wobbles from outside edge to inside edge.

Maybe it's just me. :confused:
I don't like her Flip take off because her edge trembles (same for her Flutz, she is not at all comfortable with the left leg's edges).
Her jumping technique is far from being perfect. But I have no big problems with her 2Axel combo. ;)
I agree that the air position and the landing are beautiful.

Louis
12-06-2011, 06:00 PM
Those flaws are not deserving of -3GOE. I have seen a lot worse.

The flutz + the squat + off-kilter air position + usually some level of underrotation should warrant -3, IMO. No better than -2.

The double axel-triple toe, I'll say in the example given that the good qualities of the jump (height, distance) do offset the problems with it, and I'd probably give it a 0 GOE. But I'd question positive GOE for a jump that's off-axis, has a labored takeoff, and a wobbly landing edge.

I don't dislike Sotnikova. I just think she has major technique problems that are getting glossed over. In addition to the combination issues, she has hammer-throwing technique on the flip and a really weird arm position on the salchow takeoff. I suspect these will continue to cause her problems as she grows.

OTOH, Tutk - who is not (yet) as good of a skater and has programs that do not maximize her potential - has jumps that mostly belong in an instructional video. I'd put her triple lutz-triple toe up against any that has been done, ever.

Vash01
12-06-2011, 06:02 PM
We are talking about 14 & 15 year olds here. Why are they being held to such a high standard when skaters much older than them have their flaws as well?

koatcue
12-06-2011, 06:03 PM
The flutz + the squat + off-kilter air position + usually some level of underrotation should warrant -3, IMO. No better than -2.

The double axel-triple toe, I'll say in the example given that the good qualities of the jump (height, distance) do offset the problems with it, and I'd probably give it a 0 GOE. But I'd question positive GOE for a jump that's off-axis, has a labored takeoff, and a wobbly landing edge.

I don't dislike Sotnikova. I just think she has major technique problems that are getting glossed over. In addition to the combination issues, she has hammer-throwing technique on the flip and a really weird arm position on the salchow takeoff. I suspect these will continue to cause her problems as she grows.

OTOH, Tutk - who is not (yet) as good of a skater and has programs that do not maximize her potential - has jumps that mostly belong in an instructional video. I'd put her triple lutz-triple toe up against any that has been done, ever.

I think it has already affected her.Lately she had her 2d growth spurt.You can see the result(