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krenseby
11-30-2011, 12:54 AM
^ More interesting to me, though, is how the opinions of Czisny have varied throughout the years. From being praised in 2005, to being counted out later, to being praised again, to being completely trashed (this was the infamous 2009 Natls/Worlds period), to being counted out, and now she's suddenly being seen as the best hope for the US ladies. Talk about having been around the block, having seen it all!

Yes, I remember that the current love fest for Czisny wasn't always there. But nowadays, she still does get criticized. These days the major issue of contention is her telegraphing her jumps and taking too long to prepare for them.

RD
11-30-2011, 02:12 AM
Yes, I remember that the current love fest for Czisny wasn't always there. But nowadays, she still does get criticized. These days the major issue of contention is her telegraphing her jumps and taking too long to prepare for them.

oh, but that's NOTHING compared to what Flatt receives, for instance.

Flatt can never catch a break- even in this thread.

But once Czisny could never catch a break, either...and now look at her. The Czisny case is certainly an intriguing one- and will continue to be, I bet.

Polymer Bob
11-30-2011, 03:04 AM
since then czisny has won SA, sc, neilborn twice, and last year's gpf. Why don't those count?

I always thought the Grand Prix Final should count as an ISU championship. If so, it would be the first championship win for a senior U.S. lady since Kimmie's 4CC win in 2007.

4rkidz
11-30-2011, 03:35 AM
Flatt has never, and will never, have the capability to skate like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1VaoEWyBeQ).

They both may have had consistency on their side, but Kimmie was a much better skater, airplane arms and all. If she hadn't been injured, especially with the notable improvements to the second mark, I think it's quite possible she would have medaled a few more times. Maybe even won - it's not like the crop of ladies from the past few years was terribly consistent. But we'll never know.

Completely agree as she has improved her artistic side with her maturity - too bad about the injuries as she was so technically solid - such clean triple triples .. I remember that competition - hopefully she has fond memories and enjoyed the moment.. :)

UGG
11-30-2011, 03:40 AM
I know that the 2006 field was "watered down" because Irina and Shizuka were not there...but Kimmie was still competing against 3 previous world medalists one of them being the US national Champion and Olympic Silver Medalist. I can honestly say I thought there was no way in hell Sasha would lose this competition...especially since she was able to fall twice in Turino and still come up with the silver. My prediction was Sasha, Fumie, Joannie but I would not have been surprised if Fumie upset Sasha or Kimmie skated lights out to win the bronze. I NEVER in a million years thought she would win...even if others made mistakes. To me, its almost the same as Emily Hughes winning those championships.

RD
11-30-2011, 03:51 AM
I still remember following that '06 worlds FS PBP thread on FSU live (last year I ever did so). That was one hell of a shocker...probably the biggest upset I've ever seen in my 10 years watching skating- right up there with Hughes in SLC, perhaps even more so.

I didn't even think her skate was that great (especially in comparison to many of the other "lights-out" worlds performances you typically got in that era from the ladies). Everyone else was just so mediocre, though...judges had no choice.

Triple Butz
11-30-2011, 03:55 AM
oh, but that's NOTHING compared to what Flatt receives, for instance.

Flatt can never catch a break- even in this thread.

But once Czisny could never catch a break, either...and now look at her. The Czisny case is certainly an intriguing one- and will continue to be, I bet.

:EVILLE: Since we're on the subject of Flatt's inferiority, how did this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5dkrkGQ7hk

end up behind this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBHWWL-C_KQ
??

No question in my mind who deserved better PCS and higher jump GOE, but the judges unfairly devalued Kimmie's loop, and some of her spins failed to get the levels. The Euro guys don't seem to agree with the results.

Triple Butz
11-30-2011, 04:23 AM
I still remember following that '06 worlds FS PBP thread on FSU live (last year I ever did so). That was one hell of a shocker...probably the biggest upset I've ever seen in my 10 years watching skating- right up there with Hughes in SLC, perhaps even more so.

I didn't even think her skate was that great (especially in comparison to many of the other "lights-out" worlds performances you typically got in that era from the ladies). Everyone else was just so mediocre, though...judges had no choice.

They certainly weren't holding back the marks...

Cheylana
11-30-2011, 04:14 PM
But she's the last US lady to have won an ISU championship ('07 4CCs)


since then czisny has won SA, sc, neilborn twice, and last year's gpf. Why don't those count?
I believe that is a question for the ISU.

antmanb
11-30-2011, 04:20 PM
:EVILLE: Since we're on the subject of Flatt's inferiority, how did this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5dkrkGQ7hk

end up behind this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBHWWL-C_KQ
??

No question in my mind who deserved better PCS and higher jump GOE, but the judges unfairly devalued Kimmie's loop, and some of her spins failed to get the levels. The Euro guys don't seem to agree with the results.

I agree that the loop should not have been downgraded but I don't think it had anything to do with the judges, it was the technical panel that called the elements, the judges simply marked the GOE.

Triple Butz
11-30-2011, 04:22 PM
I agree that the loop should not have been downgraded but I don't think it had anything to do with the judges, it was the technical panel that called the elements, the judges simply marked the GOE.

The Caller/Tech Panel are part of the judging system, and obviously that is who I am talking about regarding the downgrade.

antmanb
11-30-2011, 04:24 PM
The Caller/Tech Panel are part of the judging system, and obviously that is who I am talking about regarding the downgrade.

The referee is also part of the judging system, the code of points is part of the judging system. I wouldn't refer to either as judges :P

Triple Butz
11-30-2011, 04:51 PM
The referee is also part of the judging system, the code of points is part of the judging system. I wouldn't refer to either as judges :P
The referee is making judgments about the competition, and the "code of points" is not a person.

choreographer:)
12-19-2011, 04:27 PM
Here are youtube links to her numbers in the Holiday Moments show:) What a beautiful holiday show Disson put together with David A and MS! Enjoy:

I was trimming my tree with this on in the living room. It really put me in the holiday spirit:;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnRf-WhCudw

She did do a 3T in this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A31Pqzvqj7g

Happy Holidays everybody, and thank you Disson entertainment!:encore:

giselle23
12-21-2011, 04:35 AM
Meissner & Flatt had the same underlying problem: they were above average skaters, even good in some respects, but they were never great. Never will be. They had to rely on mistakes from skaters who were better than them to have a shot, and even then they had to nail it. I mean, I remember a skate America where Flatt was even able to beat Yuna Kim in the freeskate- but then that was probably Yuna's worst FS against one of Flatt's best.

I don't entirely agree with this. I think Kimmie was a skater who never reached her potential. She struggled with growth at exactly the wrong time, as Mao and Yu Na came on the scene and just as COP started harshly penalizing under-rotations (they have since eased up a bit) . She was also injured in her last competitive season, as I recall. Rachael, on the other hand, was an over-achiever. I much prefer Kimmie's skating to Rachael's.
Kimmie was improving in her artistry when she left the scene--and has improved a lot based on her recent show skating. Rachael's artistry has steadily declined from when she was a junior.