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FiveRinger
11-29-2011, 11:09 PM
Hardly - except maybe for the Jackson family and ubers.

I'm referring to crazy/unexpected verdicts. Casey Anthony, Amanda Knox, and now Conrad Murray. I realize that he received the max for the involuntary manslaughter sentence, but it still doesn't feel like enough. This whose abuse of authority caused the death of someone else. I don't like it.

Cyn
11-29-2011, 11:38 PM
He was tried for involuntary manslaughter (not murder). For that crime, the punishment is in line. I agree that he deserves a much bigger punishment, but according to our law and the trial he had, this is the most he is going to get. He may even get out in 2 years.:(

What I heard reported on the news was that he may get 2 years of house arrest :rolleyes: (along with losing his license) .

The whole thing is obscene - *any* doctor that administers propofol outside of a hospital environment (and if he isn't one himself, along with an anesthesiologist present, plus the correct monitoring equipment) should have his license yanked and be prosecuted to the hilt. IMO Conrad Murray should have be charged and found guilty of Second Degree Murder, not involuntary manslaughter.

liv
11-29-2011, 11:53 PM
I don't mind his sentence. Sometimes murderers or rapists, or drunk drivers (!)who went out and intentionally did their crimes...and will do it again, get out earlier than that. I am always surprised how drunk drivers, who kill someone, don't often get murder charges against them.

Murray grossly abused his authority and is guilty of everything he was accused of. But, I firmly believe that if it hadn't been him, it would have been another doctor, someone equally desperate for money and willing to overlook the rules for the celebrity, who would have done this for Michael. Michael would have just kept looking for someone to do this for him.

I don't think he's that much of a danger to society... unlike those others i mentioned above. If I met him in an alley, I wouldn't fear for my life. That might be a simple summary on sentences, but that's how i feel. I think it would hurt him far more to lose his licenses and ability to practice. I don't think jail is for everyone.

PeterG
11-30-2011, 02:51 AM
I'm referring to crazy/unexpected verdicts. Casey Anthony, Amanda Knox, and now Conrad Murray. I realize that he received the max for the involuntary manslaughter sentence, but it still doesn't feel like enough. This whose abuse of authority caused the death of someone else. I don't like it.

It stuns me that one can take another's life and be sentenced for just four years. 25 seems like a good number to me. Maybe less if it was accidental. (And having alcohol in your system, or if one had been using a cell phone or blackberry...would not count as accidental deaths.)

duane
11-30-2011, 03:02 AM
I don't mind his sentence...Murray grossly abused his authority and is guilty of everything he was accused of. But, I firmly believe that if it hadn't been him, it would have been another doctor, someone equally desperate for money and willing to overlook the rules for the celebrity, who would have done this for Michael. Michael would have just kept looking for someone to do this for him...I think it would hurt him far more to lose his licenses and ability to practice.
I agree with your entire post. To lose the ability to practice? That is serious punishment.

And personally, I do not consider Michael Jackson an innocent victim. I agree that if not for Murray, he would have eventually found someone to give him what he wants. The super-rich always can. And with the issues that MJ had, I doubt that he would have lived to see 60. Perhaps not even 55.

I won't even bring up the serious crimes that I believe MJ got away with for most of his life.

PeterG
11-30-2011, 03:07 AM
And personally, I do not consider Michael Jackson an innocent victim. I agree that if not for Murray, he would have eventually found someone to give him what he wants. The super-rich always can.

The issue is not whether you are rich or not, it's whether you are an addict or not. Addicts are not innocent or guilty. They are however, very much in need of health care professionals to act professionally.


I won't even bring up the serious crimes that I believe MJ got away with for most of his life.

What crimes are you referring to and what proof do you have that these crimes were committed?

Or are you gossiping?

duane
11-30-2011, 03:31 AM
The issue is not whether you are rich or not, it's whether you are an addict or not. Addicts are not innocent or guilty. They are however, very much in need of health care professionals to act professionally.One can't be helped unless they want to be helped. MJ wasn't looking for help, but was looking for someone to supply him with what he wanted. Reportedly, many health care professionals turned MJ down and refused to be his yes-doc. Eventually he found one.


What crimes are you referring to and what proof do you have that these crimes were committed?

Or are you gossiping?
Oh PUH-LEESE!! Sleep-overs at his ranch with boys who shared his bed, trips where he shared his bed with boys, millions of dollars paid in settlements...typical behavior, huh? :rolleyes:

Believe (or don't believe) what you like.

Sparks
11-30-2011, 03:57 AM
Regardless of whether or not MJ was an addict or if he was a criminal, he didn't deserve to die like that. No one does. :rolleyes:

Lacey
11-30-2011, 04:25 AM
I think the doctor did lose his license and will not be able to have house arrest, probably will have to do two years in jail, although Lindsay Lohan surely got off comparatively.

Vash01
11-30-2011, 05:30 AM
I don't mind his sentence. Sometimes murderers or rapists, or drunk drivers (!)who went out and intentionally did their crimes...and will do it again, get out earlier than that. I am always surprised how drunk drivers, who kill someone, don't often get murder charges against them.

Murray grossly abused his authority and is guilty of everything he was accused of. But, I firmly believe that if it hadn't been him, it would have been another doctor, someone equally desperate for money and willing to overlook the rules for the celebrity, who would have done this for Michael. Michael would have just kept looking for someone to do this for him.

I don't think he's that much of a danger to society... unlike those others i mentioned above. If I met him in an alley, I wouldn't fear for my life. That might be a simple summary on sentences, but that's how i feel. I think it would hurt him far more to lose his licenses and ability to practice. I don't think jail is for everyone.

That does not justify his actions, IMO. It is like saying that if x had not murdered this person, y would have, and therefore x's crime was not all that serious.

It is particularly disturbing that a doctor abused his power. A doctor is someone we trust our lives to. You cannot blame a patient if a doctor kills him (that's essentially what CM did); a patient is sick. A doctor's duty is to help him, not knowingly give him what would kill him eventually.

However, given the fact that Murray was charged with involuntary manslaughter and not with a second degree murder- fairly or unfairly- it was all the punishment he could get. I am at least glad that he did not go scott free.

PeterG
12-01-2011, 12:01 AM
I think the doctor did lose his license and will not be able to have house arrest, probably will have to do two years in jail, although Lindsay Lohan surely got off comparatively.

I'm not sure I'm following you. Are you comparing the crimes committed by Conrad Murray to those committed by Lindsay Lohan?


One can't be helped unless they want to be helped. MJ wasn't looking for help, but was looking for someone to supply him with what he wanted.

And ethical professionals look past the addictive personality and help the addict through their time of turmoil.


Oh PUH-LEESE!! Sleep-overs at his ranch with boys who shared his bed, trips where he shared his bed with boys, millions of dollars paid in settlements...typical behavior, huh? :rolleyes:

Adults have slept with children in their beds before Michael Jackson. It doesn't mean inappropriate things occur. And as far as I am aware, all of those children who spent time with Jackson had parents who allowed their children to not only be alone with Jackson (and staff), but agreed to let their children stay overnight. Parents do not let their children stay overnight at the home of someone who they think might be a child molester.

And out-of-court settlements happen all the time for various reasons, these kinds of settlements do not necessarily mean the person is guilty.

Found two things about Jackson's two trials, both from wikipedia. I know wikipedia is not the greatest source, but if you have better information, please share it with us.

The first case, referencing the Chandler family and the child (Jordan) who Jackson supposedly molested:


In a 2005 lecture at Harvard after Jackson's trial, Jackson's attorney Thomas Mesereau said the following about Jordan Chandler: "The prosecutors tried to get him to show up and he wouldn't. If he had, I had witnesses who were going to come in and say he told them it never happened and that he would never talk to his parents again for what they made him say. It turned out he'd gone into court and got legal emancipation from his parents."

And from the 2005 trial: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Jackson#Verdict)


At approximately 2:25pm PDT (21:25 UTC) on June 13, 2005, the jury of the Superior Court of the State of California, held in and for the County of Santa Barbara, determined that Jackson was not guilty on all 10 felony and 4 misdemeanor charges.

As for "believing what I want to believe"...I can only say that I do not know all of the facts, but I am not going to say that someone is guilty of something which no court of law has proved to be true.

Vagabond
12-01-2011, 06:29 AM
It stuns me that one can take another's life and be sentenced for just four years. 25 seems like a good number to me. Maybe less if it was accidental. (And having alcohol in your system, or if one had been using a cell phone or blackberry...would not count as accidental deaths.)

He was tried and convicted of involuntary manslaughter -- in essence, making a stupid mistake that caused someone's death. I would expect that the Los Angeles District Attorney's Office didn't think they could make a murder charge stick, so they didn't go after him for murder.

How much time is appropriate for making a stupid mistake that causes someone's death? Some jurisdictions do have maximum sentences longer than four years, but twenty-five years seems an awfully long time, considering the nature of the crime of which he was actually convicted.

FiveRinger
12-01-2011, 06:15 PM
He was tried and convicted of involuntary manslaughter -- in essence, making a stupid mistake that caused someone's death. I would expect that the Los Angeles District Attorney's Office didn't think they could make a murder charge stick, so they didn't go after him for murder.

How much time is appropriate for making a stupid mistake that causes someone's death? Some jurisdictions do have maximum sentences longer than four years, but twenty-five years seems an awfully long time, considering the nature of the crime of which he was actually convicted.

I wouldn't categorize what he did as a mistake since he was well aware of what he was doing. A mistake is an error....this was a doctor who knew what he was doing and that makes it more than a stupid mistake. It was a conscious decision made by someone who full well knew what the consequences could be and he took the risk anyway. Giving in to the wants and desires of an addict when you are a medical professional is not a mistake. And it certainly didn't happen more than once....Murray repeatedly gave MJ the drugs.

I realize that the DA did what he could to ensure a conviction. We have to accept that, but we don't have to like it.

Cupid
12-01-2011, 09:14 PM
I heard that Dr. Conrad Murray was all set to make tons of money every month going on tour with MJ. You think he would have been a little more careful with his cash cow/goose that's laying the golden egg. :(

I heard that before he was paid any money, though, MJ passed. Too bad, so sad for Dr. Murray. :blah:

PeterG
12-02-2011, 02:28 AM
I just read this on facebook. I've liked Janet's page and this was posted to her page around noon:


My name is Brian Panish. I am the attorney and friend of the Jackson family. They have asked me to read this statement on their behalf.

There is no way to adequately describe the loss of our beloved father, son, brother, and friend. We still look at each other in disbelief – is it really possible that he is gone? As Michael’s parents, we could never have imagined that we would live to witness his... passing; it is simply against the natural order of things. As his brothers and sisters, we will never be able to hold, laugh or perform with our brother again. And as his children, we will grow up without a father: our best friend, our playmate, our dad.

We are not here to seek revenge. There is nothing you can do today that will bring Michael back. But we will keep the love in our hearts that Michael embodied throughout his life – his passion was for unifying the world through the gift of his artistry.

We respectfully request that you impose a sentence that reminds physicians that they cannot sell their services to the highest bidder and cast aside their Hippocratic oath to do no harm. As we all know from this tragedy, doing so can have devastating results.

The Bible reminds us that men cannot really do justice, they can only seek justice. That is all that we, as a family, can ask for here.