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aftershocks
11-07-2011, 03:31 AM
You can drink and have all the Kool-Aid/ Kool-Aid smiley's you want doubleflutz. Way too bland and sugary for my taste.

If you want to accuse me of drinking somethin' cause I love Jeremy, then it's champagne, or better yet, Riesling Spatlese!

mjames
11-07-2011, 03:48 AM
You're speaking of Jeremy? Both of his programs look great this season, and he had complicated, personally challenging programs last season. He did well on last season's GPF circuit (despite being somewhat low-balled in the scoring). Yes, he made too many mistakes in his lp at Nats, but skated a beautiful sp and was .19 out of being on the World team. As it turns out, U.S. Fed, IMHO, probably made a mistake not sending Jeremy to Worlds. But, water under the bridge-- new season. I love Jeremy's lp to Muse's Exogenesis Redemption. Some headlines are saying that Jere won gold at CoC "despite mistakes", and others here are saying he won "by default." No, I think Jeremy won CoC because he skated a fantastic program: great music and choreo, spins to die for, complicated transitions, and a mature and fulfilling program. He went for a quad but came short of landing it, and singled a 3-axel, and that ain't so bad for his first GP event, new season. He won because he had strong PCS and technical scores for what he performed extremely well. Sure if the youngsters, Hanyu and Gachinski had not fallen completely apart (for lack of experience, seasoning, & perhaps endurance on Hanyu's part?), Jeremy might not have won gold, but he still would have medaled. Also, even in the sp, Jeremy had higher PCS than Hanyu and Gach for a reason. Therefore, if Jeremy puts a quad in his sp, that would make him even more competitive, b/c he's got the goods. Lesson of CoC: by God, skate your program and don't worry about your competition.

Jeremy "wildly inconsistent" -- you are off base, and likely still stuck in Abbott's Olympic 2010 sp mode. Jere had kickin' programs that season and had just come off a perfect Nats, second Men's Nat'l championship win. Yeah, he messed up at the Olympics on the largest stage -- get over it. You can call JA a headcase if you want to. To me, he's got a rockin' head on his shoulders and I love watching him skate. :encore:

As far as Angel Boy, yes he needs to fix his 3-axel, but he has great programs this season, and an impish glint in his eyes. Frail, Adam??? Actually, he has quite muscular thighs and body-type which belie his angelic face. Baloney that Adam goes to "hot" coaches -- absolutely ridiculous statement. There are not that many top level coaches to begin with, and he didn't make a snap judgement decision. Please get over the talk down re Yuka and Jason -- they are good at what they do, and their skaters are happy. Whoever said they are miracle workers was exaggerating, and that's what we have a lot of in fs over-hyping, over-exaggeration, and then over-the-top dissing.

Nuff said....:eek: We need you at my firm aftershocks! :kickass:
As far as Jeremy I love his programs especially the Long. Funny when Chan (who I love BTW) or some others fall multiple times in a program they are called gutsy but if some others fall or pop (not mentioning any names) they are head cases ....not a consistent argument.

reese
11-07-2011, 04:17 AM
Well, remember that Adam went from Brian to Ghislain Briand and then to Yuka/Jason. He attempted to play it off the Briand situation like it was always intended to be a transitional period, but that was clearly not the original intent.

I like Adam a lot, but he has been through some coaches and the argument that he likes the "it" coaches of the moment seems pretty legit to me.

Marco
11-07-2011, 04:19 AM
Absolutely in love with his new programs. The steps and spins are to die for. Still, I understand whoever that said his skating was 'small'. He needs to project more confidence and force and skate with more attack. Right now he comes off a little timid / hesitant.

The 3axel looked worse, with the added stalking. How is his 4toe coming along? Perhaps instead of trying 2 3axels he should try a 3axel and 1 4toe.

4lutz
4toe
3axel
3lutz2toe
3flip3toe
3lutz 0.5loop 3sal
3loop
3flip

aftershocks
11-07-2011, 04:37 AM
^^Legit to you, reese, ridiculous to me. I know we often think we know more than we do when it comes to the figure skating scene (and I am not exempt from that myself), but unless you are Adam or inside his head, how would you actually know what his "original intent" was?

OT re Jeremy:

Nuff said....:eek: We need you at my firm aftershocks! :kickass:
As far as Jeremy I love his programs especially the Long. Funny when Chan (who I love BTW) or some others fall multiple times in a program they are called gutsy but if some others fall or pop (not mentioning any names) they are head cases ....not a consistent argument.

Oh, thanks mjames ... intellectual property, perhaps? I do have paralegal skills, btw. :) ITA with your analogy, which I thought of too. Some have even called Chan "heroic" while in the midst of his falling, which is laughable. If Chan receives high PCS for a 3-fall program, Jeremy deserves even higher for his exquisite artistry and difficult transitions.

bek
11-07-2011, 04:43 AM
. Please get over the talk down re Yuka and Jason -- they are good at what they do, and their skaters are happy. Whoever said they are miracle workers was exaggerating, and that's what we have a lot of in fs over-hyping, over-exaggeration, and then over-the-top dissing.

Where did I say that Yuka and Jason were bad coaches. Where did anyone. I think they have done an absolute amazing job with Alissa, and I think they could potentially become great coaches. But they are also new coaches.

There's nothing wrong with giving new coaches a chance, I mean coaches begin somewhere. And at time new coaches can be more open to new methods etc. But my question is why does Adam always go that route?

Because I suspect that coaches in a lot of ways get better with age. I think Yuka, Jason, Brian, all will be better coaches when they are older. Why because they will have the opportunity to learn from trial and error. What works with this skater and what works with the other skater.

I feel that in our society we are far to quick to go with the young, while ignoring the wisdom of age.

Yuka learned from one of the very best coaches in the business-her Dad. I'd want to go to her for that knowledge alone. But you know what if I had a choice, I probably would go with her Dad right now, if I had a choice between the two. Doesn't mean eventually Yuka won't become the better coach. :Lol:

sk8er1964
11-07-2011, 03:02 PM
So, bek, how many lessons have you personally taken from all of these coaches to have such insight into their coaching skills and what they bring to the table in a coaching situation?

bek
11-07-2011, 03:05 PM
So, bek, how many lessons have you personally taken from all of these coaches to have such insight into their coaching skills and what they bring to the table in a coaching situation?

Where did I say they were bad coaches, didn't have things to bring to the situation. What I'm asking about is what seems to be a pattern with Adam. Whereas Adam always goes to the "hot newer coaches." I'm asking why that's always the case. Its not a criticism on any of the newer coaches because every new coach gets experience and I think these newer coaches clearly have stuff they are bringing to the tab. But I'm wondering why Adam always goes THAT route.

And I don't have an experience with those coaches, but I have experience in education and that's where I'm coming from. At the end of the day I'm not saying never go to a newer coach. I just question a skater who seemingly always goes with the hot coach of the moment.

Sparks
11-07-2011, 05:01 PM
ALWAYS!!!
:rofl:

sk9tingfan
11-07-2011, 07:34 PM
Well, remember that Adam went from Brian to Ghislain Briand and then to Yuka/Jason. He attempted to play it off the Briand situation like it was always intended to be a transitional period, but that was clearly not the original intent.

I like Adam a lot, but he has been through some coaches and the argument that he likes the "it" coaches of the moment seems pretty legit to me.

I'll just say one thing and nothing more. One doesn't know what one doesn't know. It's far more complex than what has been discussed.

mjames
11-07-2011, 07:44 PM
Well, remember that Adam went from Brian to Ghislain Briand and then to Yuka/Jason. He attempted to play it off the Briand situation like it was always intended to be a transitional period, but that was clearly not the original intent.

I like Adam a lot, but he has been through some coaches and the argument that he likes the "it" coaches of the moment seems pretty legit to me.

What? you have no knowledge of what his intentions were or are. To frame your conjecture like it was fact is not only prejudiced it is a pomposity!
Maybe you missed this article where he says in his own words why he left Toronto and that he went to several rinks including Arrowhead, World Arena looking for a training location.
http://www.ifsmagazine.com/articles/589-adam-rippon-heads-in-a-new-direction

This process seemed thoughtful and deliberate. I did not get a sense that he "hopped" to a "hot" spot. I got the impression that he considered not a quick fix but a long term situation. I think you may have been the only one who believed for a minute that he was going to stay in Canada at Orser's rink and train with Orser's assistant. :rofl: Much like some said Patrick was going to stay and train at the Granite with Shin after his coach died or with Lori Nichol when he left Laws... it was a temporary transition. To me it seemed like Nichol was named as Chan's coach while he could give much consideration to where he needed to be long term. I think Adam did the same. I think they both made solid mature choices.

Sparks
11-07-2011, 08:16 PM
I'll just say one thing and nothing more. One doesn't know what one doesn't know. It's far more complex than what has been discussed.

^^^ This. :respec:
mjames - I like the word pomposity. ;)

AJ Skatefan
11-07-2011, 08:29 PM
I'll just say one thing and nothing more. One doesn't know what one doesn't know. It's far more complex than what has been discussed.

Oh come on, don't you know that some people around here are able to see into the minds and motivations of the skaters even though they've never met them?

Vash01
11-07-2011, 08:46 PM
Under the COP the lack of a 3A is not a deal breaker. In the 6.0 if you can't land a 3A (men), you can't win a championship, and may not even be able to stand on the podium. In the COP, Lambiel and Buttle have won world championships without the 3A. Lambiel did have the quad (two in the LP, actually, though he never landed both cleanly , IIRC). Buttle was a very inconsistent jumper and still was able to win a world title. I don't think the lack of a consistent 3A is as big a problem for Adam Rippon as it was for Chris Bowman, who had to compete against triple axelers like Browning and Petrenko and Eldredge.

viv
11-07-2011, 08:47 PM
It seems to me like Adam likes to always go to the "hot coaches of the moment" I must say though, say whatever you will about Nikolai but it does seem like has good people working on the jumps with his students (And Orser's student do a good job with the 3/3s seeing Gao)...

Could be, but isn't it more the problem that he always wants to be the "master student" of "his" coach, and got too emotional when he was not? Not sure if I remember it right, but didn't the problems with Morozov occur when Morozov accepted Oda, and didn't the problems with Orser occur when Orser accepted Fernandez? I see the problems of that kind of situation - direct rivals as training partners, the time the respective coach concentrates on him and so on. But he definitely needs those jumps, so maybe he just should look out for a coach who is able to give them to him, and swallow whatever emotional problems might occur.

I also think that his music (and costume!) choice wasn't very wise in the last two years, (like his LP music this year though, didn't he skate an SP to it some years ago?), and I think except the jumps he has everything (feeling for music, charisma) a great skater needs. I was a fan since I saw him for the first time, so I wish he would overcome his problems...