PDA

View Full Version : Happy and Glorious: The Royalty Thread #2



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 [48] 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67

milanessa
04-04-2012, 06:06 PM
Then I wonder why there are all these protocols of the royal etiquette out there. And why we have the Chief of Protocol on our side.

My guess is because there are certain cultures where a common western gesture or action may well offend deeply.

IceAlisa
04-04-2012, 06:23 PM
My guess is because there are certain cultures where a common western gesture or action may well offend deeply.

I was talking about the extensive and detailed protocol specifically wrt the British Royal Family. It states specifically that it is prohibited to touch the Queen.

I would guess that in an interaction with royal heads of state avoidance of any offense, deep or otherwise, is a good thing. The Queen was likely not deeply offended but I wonder if she and her staff were inwardly :rolleyes: at this. I am sure she would never show it, however.

Barack, OTOH, has been paying attention and gave her a small bow. It is not necessary to bow or curtsy if you are not a subject, but it is apparently considered nice to make a small bow or bob.

Jenny
04-04-2012, 06:25 PM
My guess is because there are certain cultures where a common western gesture or action may well offend deeply.

True. We are just back from Thailand, a very friendly country, but where people do not like to be touched casually, even to give a child a light pat on the head, as the head in particular should not be touched. I do think however that many Thais are used to tourists and are forgiving, especially when it's clear that the "offending" party didn't mean any harm or disrespect.

I get the impression that in recent years especially the Queen is a cool enough chick that she would have realized that it likely was done instinctively and didn't denote disrespect, but rather courtesy, especially to an older person.

Fergus
04-04-2012, 06:27 PM
Methinks in the pre-organizers-with-earpieces days (*think Martin Short in "Father of the Bride"!), even formal events such as the introduction of two Heads of State could get a little fuzzy around the edges.

It was probably even more difficult during the FDR administration when they didn't want to reveal too much of his paralysis to the general public. Things must have been orchestrated so that guests came to him, rather than the other way around.

Just pulled Swift's The Roosevelts and The Royals off the shelf, hopefully it'll have some good dish. :)

milanessa
04-04-2012, 06:39 PM
I was talking about the extensive and detailed protocol specifically wrt the British Royal Family. It states specifically that it is prohibited to touch the Queen.

And that's the part that's (IMO) no big deal. Protocol is not the law of the land - it's a bunch of rules that have been developed over the centuries. Some are still relative, others not and more importantly some are applied differently to different people. The Queen didn't seem offended as I recall and protocol's whole reason for being is to avoid giving offense. Now if Mrs Obama had thrown her arms around Queen Elizabeth II and lifted her up in a big bear hug... :yikes:

AragornElessar
04-04-2012, 06:56 PM
Not only was Her Majesty not offended, but if she was holding the grudge about it that some are still holding all these years later, she wouldn't have invited Michelle and the girls to stay at BP or have the Royal Mews bring out one of the carriages to give the girls a ride in at the Courtyard of BP a couple of years ago. It was mentioned several times during last year's State Visit the Obamas and HM and HRH not only have stayed in touch since that first visit, but also consider each other friends.

I think it's rather silly that something HM herself didn't even react to when it happened is still being mentioned like it was some international incident on the level of going to DEFCON 5 by some.

If you find any dish in there Fergus, you'd better share. ;)

IceAlisa
04-04-2012, 07:15 PM
It's not a big deal, but a faux pas. We are known to get into the details of things around here. DEFCON 5 is a bit melodramatic on your part, AE. :drama:

As to holding a grudge for years or reacting to it right when it happened, that's just not Queen's style (and you know it!) but certainly not proof that she thought it was appropriate at the time. The Queen has spent her whole life trying to be gracious in public no matter what.

If MO had given her a bear hug, it wouldn't have been a grave offense either but certainly a bigger faux pas.

AragornElessar
04-04-2012, 07:59 PM
:rolleyes:

Gazpacho
04-04-2012, 08:14 PM
I feel sorry for Michelle Obama and others (including members of the Royal Family) who constantly have to meet and greet the public as well as heads of state. Can you imagine having to keep track of all that information? Plus, since Michelle does work with children, touching someone gently on the back has become habit for her.

barbk
04-04-2012, 08:51 PM
So what's supposed to happen when two protocols collide? When one expects shaking hands, and the other not-to-touch. Is one then wrong and the other right? Who wins?

I see protocol as "social grease" -- and when everyone's in the same culture, reasonably easy to stay consistently within it. When you have interactions between people from different cultural backgrounds, I'd prefer to cut people some slack.

milanessa
04-04-2012, 08:53 PM
So what's supposed to happen when two protocols collide? When one expects shaking hands, and the other not-to-touch. Is one then wrong and the other right? Who wins?

I see protocol as "social grease" -- and when everyone's in the same culture, reasonably easy to stay consistently within it. When you have interactions between people from different cultural backgrounds, I'd prefer to cut people some slack.

:confused:

IceAlisa
04-04-2012, 09:32 PM
I feel sorry for Michelle Obama and others (including members of the Royal Family) who constantly have to meet and greet the public as well as heads of state. Can you imagine having to keep track of all that information? Plus, since Michelle does work with children, touching someone gently on the back has become habit for her.

Mrs. Obama has staff to help her along in these events. It's not like she is thrown to the wolves all alone.

JasperBoy
04-04-2012, 10:39 PM
I must admit that when I see HM walking down steps these days I think "I wish someone would take the poor old dear's elbow so she won't fall".
Certainly protocol must make allowances for advanced age.

Fergus
04-04-2012, 11:10 PM
I must admit that when I see HM walking down steps these days I think "I wish someone would take the poor old dear's elbow so she won't fall".

My sentiments exactly! :lol:

During her most recent trip to Australia, she was getting off of a small boat and I was like, "Damn, 85yo and she works that gangplank like it's dry land!".

Though I can imagine that the State Opening of Parliament must be a pain in the royal butt thanks to that enormous staircase she must ascend before getting into the Robing Room. [Go to 7:39 in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIuTQIH2-oA).]

IceAlisa
04-04-2012, 11:26 PM
I must admit that when I see HM walking down steps these days I think "I wish someone would take the poor old dear's elbow so she won't fall".
Certainly protocol must make allowances for advanced age.

Absolutely. She is not getting any younger.