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modern_muslimah
11-02-2011, 05:18 PM
Reading the Americanization/Elementization of Ice Dance thread made me wonder which style of dance ice dance fans and especially those familiar with ice dance technik consider to be more difficult. Would D/W or V/M be able to do the iconic dances of U/Z, G/P and vice versa? Is it even possible to compare them in terms of difficulty?

briancoogaert
11-02-2011, 05:33 PM
The real question is about compulsories. Compulsories were of superior quality many years ago.

gkelly
11-02-2011, 05:36 PM
Would D/W or V/M be able to do the iconic dances of U/Z, G/P and vice versa? Is it even possible to compare them in terms of difficulty?

Technically, I think today's top teams could execute the earlier dances just fine, but not vice versa. Whether they could express those styles at the same level is another question.

And I'd second briancoogaert's point about the compulsories.

modern_muslimah
11-02-2011, 06:04 PM
The real question is about compulsories. Compulsories were of superior quality many years ago.


Technically, I think today's top teams could execute the earlier dances just fine, but not vice versa. Whether they could express those styles at the same level is another question.

And I'd second briancoogaert's point about the compulsories.

So I assume you both think that pre-IJS teams were better at compulsories? Why do you think so? Basically, what should non-techniks like myself look for in compulsories? Also, do you think that SD format of the past two seasons makes it more difficult for teams to really do great CDs?

Bournekraatzfan
11-02-2011, 06:35 PM
Ice dance has been my favourite discipline since I saw the Duchesnays and Klimova&Ponomarenko (on TV) at the 1992 Olympics. I think a team like K&P would fare well under the new system. I also think V&M had excellent compulsories.
I do think, however, that with the demands of the new system, a lot of teams did not have the time to train their compulsories that they would have had during the old system. The OD and now SD and the FD segments under IJS are packed with difficult elements.

Bournekraatzfan
11-02-2011, 06:40 PM
So I assume you both think that pre-IJS teams were better at compulsories? Why do you think so? Basically, what should non-techniks like myself look for in compulsories? Also, do you think that SD format of the past two seasons makes it more difficult for teams to really do great CDs?

I always look at the depth of edge, and whether or not they execute each section with the correct edge, as well as ice coverage, speed and flow. I also pay attention to how close they skate to one another and how secure and comfortable their hold is (I mean to say that it should not look like one partner is using the other partner for balance).

briancoogaert
11-02-2011, 06:48 PM
So I assume you both think that pre-IJS teams were better at compulsories? Why do you think so? Basically, what should non-techniks like myself look for in compulsories? Also, do you think that SD format of the past two seasons makes it more difficult for teams to really do great CDs?
Compulsories were about trace, unisson, rhythm and control of the edge and of the upper body. That's what is amazing with them.
New dance teams don't practice anymore for them, that's why they are not as good as before. You can see it in the SD : no good rhythm, not together. They gain speed with power, not by using the blade.
Watch any CD by Torvill&Dean, and you'll see what I mean : you don't see them pushing, nor forcing, they are amazingly beautiful, together...Torvill and Dean Paso Doble (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duA9IvzH4u4)

mineko
11-02-2011, 08:49 PM
...Watch any CD by Torvill&Dean, and you'll see what I mean : you don't see them pushing, nor forcing, they are amazingly beautiful, together...Torvill and Dean Paso Doble (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duA9IvzH4u4)

Wow...:swoon:

DinDonShamu
11-02-2011, 09:01 PM
Wow...:swoon:

Compare this to D/S's 2009 CD. The difference is astounding :eek: oldies rulz in compulsories ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWlTIkCt1Yo&feature=related

modern_muslimah
11-02-2011, 09:24 PM
Wow...:swoon:

IA. T&D were so smooth and they made the dance look so effortless. D&S, V&M and D&W on the other hand, make the same dance look like more work. I noticed the pushing that Brian referred.

casken
11-02-2011, 09:29 PM
What is harder today is obviously the lifts and twizzles, in the sense that they could go wrong at any time and the woman could go hurtling towards the ice on a lift, or someone gets sliced by a blade trying to catch a foot, or fall flat on their face on a twizzle, etc.

In fact I think that's part of the appeal now. There's a sense that you could witness a Dubreuil moment at any time. The falls in the 2006 Olympic OD drew more interest from the media and public than B&A actually winning a medal.

Pre-IJS, there was far more danger of tripping each other up or colliding with each other becuase FD's then were essentially 4 full minutes of nonstop steps, changing holds, connecting movements, etc that were done very close together. Lifts were more woven into the choreography rather than set up with crossovers. Closeness between the partners and skating in a variety of holds and positions was far more important then than they are now.

It's just a different beast entirely now. There's danger in the TES elements, but almost no danger outside of them them. Patrick Chan has more of a chance of tripping himself up on his connecting movement than D&W or V&W do, and he doesn't draw as many 10.00s.


Compare this to D/S's 2009 CD. The difference is astounding :eek: oldies rulz in compulsories ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWlTIkCt1Yo&feature=related

I see what you're saying, but I love the power and bigness of DelSchoe's Paso CD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWRRy9avj0c). :swoon:

Aussie Willy
11-02-2011, 09:33 PM
I think IJS requires a lot more from both partners. Guys just can't away with presenting their partners any more and do easier stuff. It asks for both partners to demonstrate quality skating skills.

mineko
11-02-2011, 09:44 PM
Compare this to D/S's 2009 CD. The difference is astounding :eek: oldies rulz in compulsories ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWlTIkCt1Yo&feature=related

ITA. And to think D/S were considered the best at CD among their contemporaries.

briancoogaert
11-03-2011, 08:30 AM
I think IJS requires a lot more from both partners. Guys just can't away with presenting their partners any more and do easier stuff. It asks for both partners to demonstrate quality skating skills.
LOL ! That's why I'm happy to be a male :D Compulsories are easier for us !

nuge
11-03-2011, 10:00 AM
[QUOTE=casken;3351423]What is harder today is obviously the lifts and twizzles, in the sense that they could go wrong at any time and the woman could go hurtling towards the ice on a lift, or someone gets sliced by a blade trying to catch a foot, or fall flat on their face on a twizzle, etc.

That's why I love to watch D/W and Denstav they're exciting ' they always seem to be skating on the edge :P no pun intended :D where they especially Charlie /Maxim could go down any moment :eek: I suppose Fabian can now be included too :rolleyes:

On the other hand you have V/M technically perfect seemless beautiful skating and hardly any chance of mistakes :) Tessa on the floor :yikes: