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View Full Version : Virtue - Moir #12 Only Audrey and Fred this season on ice



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Bournekraatzfan
12-13-2011, 01:37 AM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb-rY-i7K94

thanks, Macassar88 :) I like that he points out how this program moves from intensity to lightness. This is one of the reasons I would give their performance the PCS score over D&W's superb skate--they are masters at capturing the changes in mood and variations in rhythm and tempo (and this is another reason why I feel this program is a departure from their previous work). The way they combine tension and fluidity in the movements is something I appreciate more and more each time I watch this dance (and I can't stop watching it!) S'Wonderful! S'Marvelous!

Parsley Sage
12-13-2011, 02:06 AM
Man I don't know what to think anymore to be honest. I wonder what the major changes are they plan on making to be sure they'll win. Kina, I found one quote really interesting in the article you just posted:

I didn't think they would ever leave Canton, but looks like if they lose at Worlds that might be what they will do.

I took that quote to mean "see if they are 2nd after worlds" not that they would leave Canton.

sarakimm
12-13-2011, 03:14 AM
D/W were the better team at the GPF. Maybe if Scott had stayed on his feet in the SD, and if their lifts were a little more stable in the FD, the contest would have been closer and/or V/M might have won.

Scott's sour grapes remarks aren't a great example of good sportsmanship. Let's just leave it at that.

This.

I know Canadians can't complain about GPF scoring after watching the mens' competitions! :lol:

marbri
12-13-2011, 03:26 AM
This.

I know Canadians can't complain about GPF scoring after watching the mens' competitions! :lol:

:rolleyes:

Lissa
12-13-2011, 05:01 AM
Then why did he expect to win? The fall in the short program speaks for itself, and if Scott thinks he and Tessa totally out-skated D&W in the free dance, he needs a reality check. The Canadian audience didn't give a standing ovation to their American rivals for nothing, and I frankly thought the judges were extremely diplomatic in their scoring of the free dance. Yes, Scott has the right to express his opinion, but everyone who hears it also has the right to think he's a spoiled sport.



Agreed, look at this way Scott.....

You got the SAME mark as D&W in the FD so had you not fallen then you probably would have won by a 1 or 2 point difference.... the FALL cost them the win.

Also it's the Americans who should be stunned, they looked a little shocked that they got the same mark as V&M for the FD, so they knew they got the win thanks to Scott going on his butt.

sequins
12-13-2011, 05:02 AM
"Lay down the law to their coaches?" How exactly would they do that?

Seems to me V/M fans are going a bit overboard with this. Neither Scott nor Tessa have indicated displeasure with their coaching. Scott seemed to be mad at the SCORING.

Lay the law down in that we're not getting the results we want/need. The judges are sending us a message, they're not giving us the marks, you're my coach you need to help us find out why and help us fix it. We're not taking a backseat to anyone.

Admittedly I'm not an expert at understanding the judges or how this system works but it's been pointed out many times here and by several commentators that V/M are not doing enough. They need to add a bit more content or 'fix' a few things. While they may not be mad at their coaches and are mad at the judges, at the end of the day they need to know in their hearts that they've done everything possible to maximize their results and if they still don't win then at least they know it is the judges choice and that there's nothing that they or their coaches could have done more. You just can't have those doubts and make it work IMO.

The more I think about it this has absolutely nothing to do with D/W. This is about V/M being the best at what they do and expecting nothing less just as D/W do and should. It is just so tight now you just really have to wonder if this can truly continue to work. How do you give your best to 2+ teams and not expect someone to feel you didn't give it your all. I truly don't envy Z/S.

Lissa
12-13-2011, 05:12 AM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb-rY-i7K94



Listen to the one British commentator, they are good & know what they are talking about, this program is not as Scott has stated...their "flagship" program, no way & even these 2 saw that, I agree with him, it's is lacking something, it's a little "underwhelming" still, a bit too much free skating for my liking, I am the biggest V&M fan & would boost them up for doing nothing lol but they will need more to this program or it will be beaten at the Worlds imo.

flowerpower
12-13-2011, 07:08 AM
Lay the law down in that we're not getting the results we want/need. The judges are sending us a message, they're not giving us the marks, you're my coach you need to help us find out why and help us fix it. We're not taking a backseat to anyone.
...
The more I think about it this has absolutely nothing to do with D/W. This is about V/M being the best at what they do and expecting nothing less just as D/W do and should. It is just so tight now you just really have to wonder if this can truly continue to work. How do you give your best to 2+ teams and not expect someone to feel you didn't give it your all. I truly don't envy Z/S.

Yes.

As OGM's, if the judges are sending you the message that your material is lacking somehow, you'll expect your coaches to help figure it out and fix it so that you have the right vehicles to maximize your chances of winning gold.

And if knowledgeable commentators - including some from your own country - are questioning some aspects of the choreography of your free dance, you'll have even greater reason for concern.

Both V/M and D/W expect their coaches to see them as #1, and do all they can to help them win. That is natural and to be expected, given what both teams have already won to date. However, I do not think it is realistic, and I fully expected friction to arise sooner or later - it's in the nature of the situation.

ltnskater
12-13-2011, 07:13 AM
Agreed, look at this way Scott.....

You got the SAME mark as D&W in the FD so had you not fallen then you probably would have won by a 1 or 2 point difference.... the FALL cost them the win.

Also it's the Americans who should be stunned, they looked a little shocked that they got the same mark as V&M for the FD, so they knew they got the win thanks to Scott going on his butt.

I just have to point this out, it was NOT the fall that brought their score down in the SD, it was the lower levels that they got on their elements. The fall cost them 1, maybe 2 points if you count the slightly lower PCS that goes along with the fall, but not 5, the biggest problem were their downgraded elements.

I'm thinking this may be the last time we see this type of "departure" or different program from them, as the judges don't seem to be rewarding it. Originally, they thought having the Olympic and World titles would allow them to get creative, and break out of the box a bit, going in a direction they haven't really gone before in their dances, but it doesn't look like it has been too well received. So I think starting next season, if they continue, it will be all classical/romantic/dramatic/traditional free dances that judges love to see. (So no more GGITS, latin number, FF) - kind of reminds me of B/A with their That's Entertainment FD, going to Amelie at worlds, and eventually continuing the trend with their religious themed FD in the Olympics (gorgeous dance by the way).

Carmen Ovsiannikov
12-13-2011, 07:45 AM
Great post ltnskater and I agree.

Had V&M changed their FD before the GPF? If not, I still contend that there isn't anything choreography wise that needs to be changed. I'm guessing others have given up and are now going along with the idea that D&W's program is superior in content and performance but if there was no change to the program as it was skated at Bompard then I will continue to disagree. :lynch:

I'm not sure how they did it but for some reason D&W are able to pull of the illusion that their FD is more difficult and has less open spots than Funny Face. I honestly didn't see that. If V&M's FD is in need of more difficulty then IMHO D&W's should be as well.

I do agree that next season if V&M are to have any hope of trying to re-establish themselves as once more being seen as equals to D&W at least, then they need to screw creativity and just pick some exciting music that is familiar to and popular with the crowd and find a way to make their next FD look more difficult than it actually is.

I do see shades of what happened to B&A but I'm also reminded of DelShoes' "Carnival in Venice" FD from 2006 and T&D's "Let's Face the Music and Dance" from 1994. The original versions of those programs were excellent but apparently both teams got feedback that something(s) was wrong and if they wanted to increase their scores then changes needed to be made. Changes were made, the programs were never the same and we saw the final placements by the end of the season for both teams. B&A went through the same thing with their Ave Maria FD. Negative feedback led to changes that in the eyes of some changed a dance that even non B&A fans had originally given positive reviews to. And in the end the changes ended up being all for naught.

Sometimes I wonder how skaters can tell which criticism is valid and which criticism is nothing more than game playing.

Since apparently Funny Face isn't where it needs to be and I honestly don't think any changes will make a difference (to me it sounds like excuse after excuse) I think it will be next year with more althleticism and less creativity that will tell the tale.

I think it's time for me to stick to discussing Tessa's costumes and how gorgeous she looks in them.

Andrey aka Pushkin
12-13-2011, 08:18 AM
FF is creative? :scream:

I hate FF and I find it much worse than D/W's "Batman" :P but I think it's about time people stop claiming that D/W and V/M are "both great and very close in their ability". No, they are not. The skating quality gap between D/W and V/M is bigger than between D/W and Bobrova. In this sense I definitely agree with Scott that the judges have been smoking weed and that the marks have very little to do with the reality.

allezfred
12-13-2011, 10:50 AM
In the past Canadian athletes have always been passive and accepting of their fate fair or not, and criticized for it.

Um Shae-Lynn Bourne anyone? :lol:

Anyway, thread closed.