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View Full Version : Virtue - Moir #12 Only Audrey and Fred this season on ice



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Bournekraatzfan
12-12-2011, 09:08 PM
I am curious to hear what Tessa and Scott plan to do with their FD. I definitely do not see a more difficult FD being performed right now, but i do fear that some of that difficulty could be overlooked and it is their own faults for making everything look so easy ;) seriously, though, I would hate to think that they have to make things look difficult to get the marks they want. I really do think Marina has created 2 masterpieces this season:)

Some areas I am sure they will look at:
-the dance spin: they travelled during the first part, and they could have more speed on the second part (this is an element I would give to D&W)
-the one-foot lift: the timing was wonderful, but the move itself could be a touch smoother

The step sequences belonged to them, IMO. They have a fluidity and precision like no other team, and those pointed toes and perfectly matched free legs just put them over the top.

maggylyn
12-12-2011, 09:10 PM
:eek: i really missed something. Its was only GPF. Maybe they have another problems?


You wouldn't think it was only a GPF by all the drama going on here.

pani
12-12-2011, 09:18 PM
I don't understand why Scott expected to win the competition or even the FD. D&W had a superb skate. It's not like they had a weak FD or poor execution. Both teams skated great and the marks reflected that (although I thought D&W would win by a slightly bigger margin). V&M did have a fall in the SD and they were behind. Did Scott really believe V&M skated that much better than D&W to actually win that competition? He is deluding himself, if he did.

He talking about component score and about artistic impression and V-M were best in this.
Look at both step sequences from this teams at the same time. ;)
But like i said before i was happy with result. But Scott will never won OG if he will not be so competitive.
And from one hand i am happy to not see again all this sweet videos how they are happy when they lose, because its not truth.

VarBar
12-12-2011, 09:29 PM
I don't understand why Scott expected to win the competition or even the FD. D&W had a superb skate. It's not like they had a weak FD or poor execution. Both teams skated great and the marks reflected that (although I thought D&W would win by a slightly bigger margin). V&M did have a fall in the SD and they were behind. Did Scott really believe V&M skated that much better than D&W to actually win that competition? He is deluding himself, if he did.

In my understanding of Scott's statements, he thought they'd win the free dance due to the artistic mark and I am sure you wouldn't blame him for thinking that because I clearly remember you posting a couple of times in other threads that you found V/M the more artistic team of the two.:)

ddtpdx
12-12-2011, 09:36 PM
I don't really see that S/Z are in an impossible situation. Tamara Moskvina has been a long time favorite of mine when it comes to coaches. During the 97/98 season when she coached both B&S and K&D she spoke about what it was like to coach two top teams who were in such a close competition with one another. She stated that she gave equal attention to both teams and gave each team the best programs she could then let the judges sort it all out. I gained even more respect for her after that.

While it's hard to prove (or maybe not) there has been the feeling that team Igor and Marina are the opposite of Tamara. Igor has been known for his fickleness when it comes to his skaters. Someone mentioned it a few pages ago. From L&T* to S&P to B&A, then V&M now D&W. I recall Igor's enthusiasm for Tiffany Steigler. He couldn't wait to get her into his stable of skaters and train her. Yet Jamie Silverstein decides to return (though it turned out to be for only one season) and S&M were old news. At the time some people who had attended 2005 Skate America discussed how it felt as if Tiffany and Sergei seemed to not be part of the "group."

Marina has also publically favored one team over another; at various competitions chatting about which team, program etc. is her favorite. She isn't a stupid woman and must know that might/will effect which way the judging panel is going to sway. Rafter touched on that earlier. I remember the comments about V&M made in 2008 which may have at least in part help to cause B&A's exit from Canton.

IMO it's a recipe for trouble when a coach can't be objective and like Moskvina indicated she had done, give the best to all his/her teams and let the chips fall where they may.

Actually speaking of teams changing coaches midseason, S&M left S/Z right before U.S. Nationals in 2006 going with Nikolai Morosov.

*I still don't believe that coaching issues was the only problem L&T had but that's an entirely different conversation.

Great post.
Perhaps it is easier to create 2 equal pairs programs???? or maybe it's more accurate to say that the construction of the program in ice dance is so much more critical than pairs?

I wonder whether Z really did try to do this this season, when you compare the original programs. Both FF and LS are music set to a storyline. But then USFA suggested a change....and put a wrinkle in her plan and she had use an epic piece of music that she had been saving for D/W for 2014 (since she didn't have time to come up with something else under the short timeline)??

As I have posted on another thread, it is interesting to hear what S said in 2008 about coaching more than 1 elite team. I think this was just before B/A left.


http://ptichkafs.livejournal.com/31853.html

The relevant quote from above interview below:

SHPLIBAND: ITíS IMPOSSIBLE!
Normally, an ice dancing coach should not have similarly ranked teams in their group. In your case, there is direct competition between Belbin/ Agosto and Virtue/ Moir. Is that good or bad?

Elite teams have approached me on several occasions, but I turned them down for that very reason. The competition within our group was unintended, as they were on entirely different levels when I started training them. Now, the competition is actually among three teams. Meryl Davis and Charlie White even got a higher technical mark than Belbin and Agosto in the Yankee Polka at the US Nationals.

Did this situation result from too rapid improvement of the young, or the too slow one in the older team?

Each team and each athlete develops differently. There is no standard for improvement. By the way, I donít think that Belbin and Agosto have peaked. Perhaps they are on a loosing streak at this particular stage, but I continue to see great potential in them.

How hard is it to train direct competitors?

I guess weíre lucky, as all our teams display unique friendliness to each other. Marina and I love them all equally and dedicate ourselves equally to all of them, so there is no hint of jealousy in our group. Sometimes it even seems to me that itís not possible, but nevertheless it is.

marbri
12-12-2011, 09:55 PM
Except that in an interview somewhere it seems it was Marina who was unsure of La Strada, that D&W were the ones who wanted it, and that Marina had officials at Champ Camp look it over with her concerns in mind. They must have agreed and the program was changed. Just pointing that out to say that it seems it was her who was having doubts first about the original program.

Bournekraatzfan
12-12-2011, 09:59 PM
I don't understand why Scott expected to win the competition or even the FD. D&W had a superb skate. It's not like they had a weak FD or poor execution. Both teams skated great and the marks reflected that (although I thought D&W would win by a slightly bigger margin). V&M did have a fall in the SD and they were behind. Did Scott really believe V&M skated that much better than D&W to actually win that competition? He is deluding himself, if he did.

I think he was referring only to the FD. and I agree, both teams skated great. How I wish I could have seen it live!

Bournekraatzfan
12-12-2011, 10:00 PM
does anyone have the british eurosport version of Tessa and Scott's FD?

DORISPULASKI
12-12-2011, 10:08 PM
The referee was Canadian (Jean Senft). The panel was France(TC), Japan(TS)and Israel(ATS).

.

That would be Jean Senft, the mother of Senft of Senft & Gislaison who beat V&M once back in Canadian juniors.

There's the conspiracy theory, if you want a conspiracy theory.

Bournekraatzfan
12-12-2011, 10:10 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf3uu6u27nE&feature=channel_video_title
Is it me, or does Scott still look pissed during the gala?

thank you so much for posting! by far my favourite exhibition program of theirs. Their subtlety, their connection to each other and their deep understanding of music and movement are really on display here.



...I LOVE that exhibition and that version of the song. Gorgeous exhibition. I'd like to see them bring a bit of that kind of tension and longing to a FD, would blow everyone else away.

me too!

Doubletoe
12-12-2011, 10:13 PM
I am not sure why we would think that he expects to win because he and Tessa are the host nation team. I think he was puzzled by the scoring, and IMO that is completely fair. Skaters and their families invest a lot of time, $, and energy in this sport, so I think they have every right to have an opinion on the judging and to express that opinion.

Then why did he expect to win? The fall in the short program speaks for itself, and if Scott thinks he and Tessa totally out-skated D&W in the free dance, he needs a reality check. The Canadian audience didn't give a standing ovation to their American rivals for nothing, and I frankly thought the judges were extremely diplomatic in their scoring of the free dance. Yes, Scott has the right to express his opinion, but everyone who hears it also has the right to think he's a spoiled sport.

skoppa
12-12-2011, 10:14 PM
does anyone have the british eurosport version of Tessa and Scott's FD?

I think this works

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb-rY-i7K94&feature=channel_video_title

The person has most if not all GP that BEuro has shown this season

Rafter
12-12-2011, 10:52 PM
That would be Jean Senft, the mother of Senft of Senft & Gislaison who beat V&M once back in Canadian juniors.

There's the conspiracy theory, if you want a conspiracy theory.

The referee has basically no control over the marks.

Golightly
12-12-2011, 10:59 PM
does anyone have the british eurosport version of Tessa and Scott's FD?

Here: http://youtu.be/jb-rY-i7K94

Was that Nicky who said: "Some of the elements in the step sequences were happening without us knowing they were there because they were just dancing them". And if this isn't what ice dance should be about, I don't know what should.

Bournekraatzfan
12-12-2011, 11:08 PM
Then why did he expect to win? The fall in the short program speaks for itself, and if Scott thinks he and Tessa totally out-skated D&W in the free dance, he needs a reality check. The Canadian audience didn't give a standing ovation to their American rivals for nothing, and I frankly thought the judges were extremely diplomatic in their scoring of the free dance. Yes, Scott has the right to express his opinion, but everyone who hears it also has the right to think he's a spoiled sport.

That's the thing, I do not think he feels they should have won the entire competition--just the FD. I am not saying that people have no right to comment on what skaters say--I am saying that we need to be careful about how we interpret comments that we read. We were not there and we did not hear exactly what he said. I have seen people misquoted too many times to count, and these comments can be read differently depending on the article (again, I will reference Rafter's post of the LFP article on page 47, I believe).