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View Full Version : Virtue - Moir #12 Only Audrey and Fred this season on ice



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pani
12-12-2011, 07:52 PM
Not convinced they need a coaching change but they need to lay the law down with Z/S and if they can't/won't meet their needs they have to go.

For me this what they want to do now ;)

Emdee
12-12-2011, 07:58 PM
Has anyone changed a coach mid season?
Who owns the choreo? Could they take it with them if they move to someone else?

I saw Scott's parents on the flight coming back and they looked so exhausted and sad. Kind of like how I felt and I am only a fan. I was so upset with the SD marks ( with the gap) that I was quite a bit cranky that night.

euterpe
12-12-2011, 07:59 PM
"Lay down the law to their coaches?" How exactly would they do that?

Seems to me V/M fans are going a bit overboard with this. Neither Scott nor Tessa have indicated displeasure with their coaching. Scott seemed to be mad at the SCORING.

Bournekraatzfan
12-12-2011, 08:01 PM
Oh, for the love of God!

She called Mahler her masterpiece and she called Tessa and Scott G/G of ice dance. Wasn't that politicking against D/W? You guys only see what you wanna see. The truth is, Scott acted very immaturely and turned out arrogant as hell. He can think they're the best team in the world or the best team of the decade or the best team ever, but he should also be smart and classy enough not to say it out loud like that. Also, there is a phrase "we're disappointed" for the moments like this, which sounds a hell lot better than "it's a piss off".

I understand it was the emotions speaking, but if so, he should have known better and kept his mouth shut until he was more calmed down.

Also, pani you can say whatever you want about how you don't like Meryl and Charlie's skating but i won't let you insult them like that. They were always as classy as it gets in their defeats, something Scott should learn from them.

In all fairness, we really don't know what Scott actually said, nor do we know the exact context of his remarks. Please see Rafter's post with a link to the article from the London Free Press--as Rafter has pointed out, this article shows Scott's remarks in a bit of a different light. "It's a piss off" appears to be his reaction to losing the event itself, and I would expect this: of course he wanted to win the GPF and win at home. and I would hope that he knows that he and Tessa are both technically and artistically brilliant and have the goods to win--you need to believe it for it to happen. I also imagine that he was angry at himself for falling and his comment could have been referencing the fall as well as the loss. but my point is, we don't know exactly what he meant and we didn't hear him make these comments. I am uncomfortable about jumping to conclusions in this case, especially because Scott has made a point of mentioning D&W in interviews and giving them credit for pushing them.

and regarding the 2011 4CC interview with Meryl that has been referenced by someone, I think it is unfair to conclude that Meryl didn't care about Tessa's injury just because she said that she and Charlie try to focus on their own skating and competition, apparently in response to a reporter's question about how she felt about Tessa and Scott having to withdraw (I say apparently because, importantly, interviews omit or alter some key things, like the order in which things were said and an omitted line could change the entire context of a comment--heck, an omitted word could do the same). Of course I would expect her and any other elite athlete to be focussed on their own skating--that is how you they got to the elite level and stayed there. That does not mean she didn't care about Tessa and Scott and how difficult the situation must have been for them. Meryl has always been very kind when she discussed V&M, and I don't see any reason to assume that she has anything but respect for them and what they have gone through.

sorry for the long post--just needed to get that out. Congratulations to both teams on two awesome FDs! What an exciting competition!

pani
12-12-2011, 08:05 PM
Has anyone changed a coach mid season?
Who owns the choreo? Could they take it with them if they move to someone else?

I saw Scott's parents on the flight coming back and they looked so exhausted and sad. Kind of like how I felt and I am only a fan. I was so upset with the SD marks ( with the gap) that I was quite a bit cranky that night.

:eek: i really missed something. Its was only GPF. Maybe they have another problems?

And i dont think its good idea to change coache in mid of the season.

kwanette
12-12-2011, 08:07 PM
[QUOTE=Emdee;3402912]Has anyone changed a coach mid season?
Who owns the choreo? Could they take it with them if they move to someone else?
QUOTE]

In dance? Adam Rippon left Morosov after the season had begun in 08, I think.

ETA: He did. Was with NM at SA and COR and by Nats was with Orser, tho Karen Preston travelled with him to Cleveland.

Bournekraatzfan
12-12-2011, 08:09 PM
Scott's displeasure has nothing to do with his coaches or even the actual skating, IMO. He's upset that the judges didn't do the "right" thing by favoring the host nation's team. After all of the Canadian hoopla over biased judging in the past, I find this expectation of favoritism a little hypocritical, even though it may be a time-honored figure skating tradition.

I am not sure why we would think that he expects to win because he and Tessa are the host nation team. I think he was puzzled by the scoring, and IMO that is completely fair. Skaters and their families invest a lot of time, $, and energy in this sport, so I think they have every right to have an opinion on the judging and to express that opinion.

marbri
12-12-2011, 08:14 PM
Honestly its hard for me to read Z-Sh body language.
They look unhappy with D-W huge SD score for sure. Or look wonder.
So i dont know, because i was happy with T-S score in FD and didnt see any big problems, but Scott know better....
I dont know only could i belive in levels - it was canadian Techical specialist?

And its interesting - no quotes from Zueva or from Shpilband.

The referee was Canadian (Jean Senft). The panel was France(TC), Japan(TS)and Israel(ATS).

Long delay waiting for marks of both teams so I think there was at least one review called for each team. Most likely the step sequences I would think.

Not sure what Marina and Igor should say. I really think they are in an impossible situation. I certainly don't envy them. I think in the end this will be hardest for V&M.

marbri
12-12-2011, 08:15 PM
Having fun catching up on all the posts since yesterday and all the descriptions of what piss off means :lol: !

UGH! You clearly aren't paying attention. The debate was over what "it's a piss off" means, not "piss off" ;):D

Emdee
12-12-2011, 08:33 PM
Pani,
I dont think it was more than the usual disappointment. ( the sadness I mean). Also its a tiring few days as you well know. The highs and lows of the adrenalin as well. Added to that we Canadian fans had the Chan fiasco.

pani
12-12-2011, 08:45 PM
Pani,
Added to that we Canadian fans had the Chan fiasco.

What a fiasco? He won or i miss something? :D

Vash01
12-12-2011, 08:49 PM
I don't understand why Scott expected to win the competition or even the FD. D&W had a superb skate. It's not like they had a weak FD or poor execution. Both teams skated great and the marks reflected that (although I thought D&W would win by a slightly bigger margin). V&M did have a fall in the SD and they were behind. Did Scott really believe V&M skated that much better than D&W to actually win that competition? He is deluding himself, if he did.

Vash01
12-12-2011, 08:50 PM
Pani,
I dont think it was more than the usual disappointment. ( the sadness I mean). Also its a tiring few days as you well know. The highs and lows of the adrenalin as well. Added to that we Canadian fans had the Chan fiasco.

What fiasco? He won!

Carmen Ovsiannikov
12-12-2011, 08:53 PM
I don't really see that S/Z are in an impossible situation. Tamara Moskvina has been a long time favorite of mine when it comes to coaches. During the 97/98 season when she coached both B&S and K&D she spoke about what it was like to coach two top teams who were in such a close competition with one another. She stated that she gave equal attention to both teams and gave each team the best programs she could then let the judges sort it all out. I gained even more respect for her after that.

While it's hard to prove (or maybe not) there has been the feeling that team Igor and Marina are the opposite of Tamara. Igor has been known for his fickleness when it comes to his skaters. Someone mentioned it a few pages ago. From L&T* to S&P to B&A, then V&M now D&W. I recall Igor's enthusiasm for Tiffany Steigler. He couldn't wait to get her into his stable of skaters and train her. Yet Jamie Silverstein decides to return (though it turned out to be for only one season) and S&M were old news. At the time some people who had attended 2005 Skate America discussed how it felt as if Tiffany and Sergei seemed to not be part of the "group."

Marina has also publically favored one team over another; at various competitions chatting about which team, program etc. is her favorite. She isn't a stupid woman and must know that might/will effect which way the judging panel is going to sway. Rafter touched on that earlier. I remember the comments about V&M made in 2008 which may have at least in part help to cause B&A's exit from Canton.

IMO it's a recipe for trouble when a coach can't be objective and like Moskvina indicated she had done, give the best to all his/her teams and let the chips fall where they may.

Actually speaking of teams changing coaches midseason, S&M left S/Z right before U.S. Nationals in 2006 going with Nikolai Morosov.

*I still don't believe that coaching issues was the only problem L&T had but that's an entirely different conversation.

Emdee
12-12-2011, 09:07 PM
The Chan/Reuters fiasco!!

Of course he won.....