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View Full Version : Virtue - Moir #12 Only Audrey and Fred this season on ice



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pani
12-11-2011, 11:38 PM
I am a little surprised at the bluntness of Scott's comments, given that he was probably sitting right next to D/W during the press conference. But I am kind of glad to read them too. This means that they will take a hard look at their program, search for feedback and tinker with it.

I happen to think that Zueva is an excellent choreographer who knows how to play to her teams' strengths. She can also be versatile (e.g. Pink Floyd FD). But I'd love to see V/M try out a new choreographer, even for an exhibit number, so that they can grow. I bet a Camerlengo would be really interesting.

I think he said this after press-conference.
I feel bad....

pani
12-11-2011, 11:40 PM
And he has every right to scratch his head and wonder about where those PCS scores were less than Davis/White. I had a look at the report card. Virtue/Moir are ahead in Skating Skills, and tied on Choreography and Interpretation. On Linking footwork and Performance they are behind? I don't think so. If the goal is to look at the performance of the music itself, and not a judge's personal preference about music, there is no way you can say that Virtue/Moir did not embody Audrey and Fred. It's like they stepped out of the movie. The performance was a highlight for me. The linking footwork between elements is simply spectacular, and very difficult. I don't get it. I can see the tie on choreography and interpretation. On the other 3 elements, I really do think the Virtue/Moir wuz robbed. There is no one in the world that can skate those elements at the level of Virtue/Moir.

I also do not understand all this sniping at Zueva/Shpilband. They are clearly fantastic coaches that are producing fantastic results. They have the top 3 in the world in their rink right now. They are creating unique programs for each team that suit each team. I can't imagine why Virtue/Moir would leave them. They brought them to Olympic Gold, for goodness sake! Virtue/Moir are very loyal people. When you look at their amazing career, they stayed many years in Waterloo with Paul MacIntosh, and the only other coaches are Zueva/Shpilband. Get over it. They are aren't leaving Canton until they go pro.

Did he said this at press-conference? If yes - how he could now talk with Charlie? :( I really dont know what to think and cant understand, why nobody stop Scott.

Rafter
12-11-2011, 11:40 PM
When Tessa says this is the time to make major changes, I hope she means in coaching. :shuffle: Obviously it wouldn't be mid-season, but I'd love it if they moved to C&K after Worlds.

One change they could make in the FD would be to do 4 seperate lifts instead of three lifts with one in combo. By doing 4 seperate lifts, D&W gain more in potential +GOE than V&M do by only doing 3 lifts. I also think V&M need to scrap the first lift in the FD - they're not getting the greatest GOE on it because sometimes it looks a bit shaky. I also think they could rethink the lift in the SD and try for something more dynamic. They should also talk to the tech caller and find out why they were given level 3 for the rhumbas.

I've only watched V&M and D&Ws FDs once each, but to me it was glaringly obvious when they skated back-to-back how much better V&Ms edges, line, unison are than D&Ws. V&M also skate MUCH closer together than D&W and in the footwork sequences they are much closer together through the hips than D&W. And I'm sorry but Meryl hits some really fugly positions at times. I also think she's doing a lot of running steps and hops/jumps and not really skating on deep edges through that FD (outside of footwork sequences).

All that said, I was surprised that the FD marks were basically tied. I figured after D&Ws FD score at CoR that they would be about 5 marks ahead in the FD than V&M at the GPF.

I think one of V&Ms biggest problems skating against D&W this season is D&W and Marina's choice of Die Fledermaus. That is hard music to compete against.

I just really really really hope V&M leave Shpilband & Zoueva. I don't trust Shpilband and it's pretty interesting to me that it was the two USA Igor/Marina teams whose SD marks skyrocketed at the GPF compared to their previous season's best score. No other teams had a 6+ mark increase in the SD like D&W and the Shibs had. Even the fact that the Shibs "Baby Latin on Ice" vanilla program scored that close to P&B and W&P is suspicious.

flowerpower
12-11-2011, 11:43 PM
Thanks for the link, but even just reading his quotes and not seeing his facial expression or tone, you can tell he's really pissed off. I don't know what to say they were already down 5 pts from the SD did they think they would still win despite that fact?

I'm sure he recognized that the fall was costly.

I think though, that both are feeling frustrated as perhaps they are waking up to some of the realities of their situation. Tessa never speaks bluntly, but I think the two are on the same page. Scott wears his heart on his sleeve.

It's great to train side-by-side with top rivals (it benefits both teams), but there is a conflict of interest with the same coaches/choreographers handling both top teams. It has worked well for quite a while, but it's inherently an unstable situation. At the same time, the ice dance judging system is shifting its emphasis, seemingly away from finesse and musicality and toward speed. These are big issues, and perhaps the two of them are finally thinking about these things, and recognizing some difficulties.

Up until this season, Tessa's legs were such an ongoing preoccupation that these issues were probably not much on their minds. Scott should probably have held his tongue, and waited to talk it out further with Tessa, before saying anything at all, but again - heart is on his sleeve.

liv
12-11-2011, 11:43 PM
Understandably they're upset, they hate to lose, but it was a lot to ask for them to win after being behind by so much after the SD. That much is a lot to make up on a team that is as strong as D/W.

I think it will be best for them to reevaluate their FD and see where they can tweak things. I think there are a few spots where it looks like they're not doing anything. I've always loved the program, it has good bones, but in some places it looks a little empty and when you're competing against D/W who always appear frenetic, well, sometimes perception is everything... and not falling in the SD is key...don't handicap yourselves!

Shayii
12-11-2011, 11:50 PM
I am a little surprised at the bluntness of Scott's comments, given that he was probably sitting right next to D/W during the press conference.
Yea that's what I was thinking too, must have been a really awkward press conference lol

pani
12-11-2011, 11:50 PM
All that said, I was surprised that the FD marks were basically tied. I figured after D&Ws FD score at CoR that they would be about 5 marks ahead in the FD than V&M at the GPF..

Yes, thats why i was happy to see the same score for FD.
Why Scott are so angry? :( And sorry, but i think now all skaters could be against then, because its not look good, what he said.

marbri
12-12-2011, 12:03 AM
Yes, thats why i was happy to see the same score for FD.
Why Scott are so angry? :( And sorry, but i think now all skaters could be against then, because its not look good, what he said.

Well he has certainly made things tense in Canton. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

The only thing I'd want clarification on is whether he was just talking about winning the FD and not the whole thing (because he did fall and all).

But as messy as it all is I do like that it seems to have lit a fire under them because they are too good to just lie down.

IoanaC
12-12-2011, 12:11 AM
But as messy as it all is I do like that it seems to have lit a fire under them because they are too good to just lie down.

Yeah, it does seem to have been a sort of wake-up call. And I believe he was talking about the FD - he must have known 5 points were too much to overcome.

Golightly
12-12-2011, 12:12 AM
Yes, thats why i was happy to see the same score for FD.
Why Scott are so angry? :( And sorry, but i think now all skaters could be against then, because its not look good, what he said.

Calm down, pani. It isn't as if he said anything against his competitors, clearly he meant the judges. Probably he should let Tessa do the talking when he is this upset, but he seems to be the more spontaneous of the two. I don't think what he said is THAT bad, people have said worse things during a presser.

I don't think changing coaches is what Tessa meant to say when talking about major changes. They just know that their program is very sound and intricate and it frustrates them to learn that judges don't seem to respond to it. There's also the emotional connection to it, the fact they are playing characters from a movie and playing them well, too, the fact that they are better dancers. So, I get why he is upset. He is not stupid, he knows they won in base value, so what is left? GOEs. His dig was at the judges and it was clear. To say that they're mad at their coaches or even Meryl and Charlie is, in my opinion, stretching it quite a lot.

Cherub721
12-12-2011, 12:15 AM
Gooo Scott! He sounds like an athlete. Enough of the happy clappy friendship stuff.

Kind of off topic but maybe this is a bit of karma for him supporting the death of CDs. As I recall he was quite adamant about it, and I was surprised, because V&M are so good at them. If the CDs still existed, V&M could have had a little cushion over D&W to start off every event. (You can't compare it to the compulsory patterns in the SD with the ridiculous and arbitrary concept of assigning "levels" when everyone is doing the same steps.)

I'm sooooo glad he has this attitude though. They beat D&W at their own game (levels) and it should have carried to a win in the FD at least with substantially higher PCS. I don't think Scott would be that upset if they had won the FD and lost overall because of the fall.

I'm scared to enter the GPF forum now!

Proustable
12-12-2011, 12:17 AM
Gooo Scott! He sounds like an athlete. Enough of the happy clappy friendship stuff.

Kind of off topic but maybe this is a bit of karma for him supporting the death of CDs. As I recall he was quite adamant about it, and I was surprised, because V&M are so good at them. If the CDs still existed, V&M could have had a little cushion over D&W to start off every event. (You can't compare it to the compulsory patterns in the SD with the ridiculous and arbitrary concept of assigning "levels" when everyone is doing the same steps.)

I'm sooooo glad he has this attitude though. They beat D&W at their own game (levels) and it should have carried to a win in the FD at least with substantially higher PCS. I don't think Scott would be that upset if they had won the FD and lost overall because of the fall.

I'm scared to enter the GPF forum now!

Not at the GPF, though. They didn't do CDs.

Marlowe
12-12-2011, 12:18 AM
Once again I seem to be behind the times. Until today, after watching the GPF, I didn't much care for the Funny Face routine.

But today while watching them skate I suddenly *got* the program. It is stylish and clean and sophisticated and honest, and it does capture the 1960s Hollywood film era.

VarBar
12-12-2011, 12:20 AM
I never thought after TEB and Cup of Russia that Tessa and Scott would be able to catch up with their main competitors on the FD but they did just that and I have to say it was for the first time today that V/M's Funny Face program took me with it from the beginning to the end (although the music is still not my cup of tea). In my humble opinion, it was Tessa and Scott who made the difference, I found them faster, sharper and skating with more conviction than in their GP series, they were very close to brilliant and should have won the free dance.

Cherub721
12-12-2011, 12:22 AM
Not at the GPF, though. They didn't do CDs.

True. I mean in general.