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View Full Version : Virtue - Moir #12 Only Audrey and Fred this season on ice



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marbri
12-10-2011, 03:58 PM
I wasn't trying to be pessimistic, just zen :D What I mean is us freaking out online isn't going to change this season, this season is happening right now and it's december. If you believe the idea that if the judges smell weakness (as with the injury) they will take the excuse to mark you down then maybe all this public freaking out can be used the same way. What I do believe is that V&M are extremely gifted and talented skaters and that if the season continues with D&W on top that if anyone can reverse things it is them. If not this season then most certainly next. It doesn't happen often but when you have the goods it's not impossible to come back to the top. They have the goods and I believe more so than any other team out there.

Susan M
12-10-2011, 04:55 PM
The judges are clearly saying THE best is D/W, and then there is everyone else.
I don't think it is that simple. I don't see last year's Worlds as some great changing of the guard. Tessa & Scott won the short dance there, so the judges obviously still like them too. I wouldn't put too much on D-W beating them in the free last year. Because of Tessa's surgery and their late start to the season, they were still not really ready for Worlds last spring. V-M clearly lost steam in the last third of that free dance and started looking a bit sloppy. IMO the judges had little choice but to put D-W first for that event.

One of the things I think we are seeing this year is that choice of music is huge and I think D-W SD music choices fit better the image ISU wants to project. I remember being stunned in 09-10 at how much the judges loved D-W Indian OD, because traditionally ISU judges have not liked music that is too far out of the box. Clearly, that is no longer true. Now they seem to reward louder, more raucous, teen kind of music, like D-W have chosen for the SD. I know that music is not supposed to matter, but I think it does seem to affect the judges, especially in dance, which, really, is all about interpreting music.

One thing that is especially true of Tessa & Scott is that their programs really show it when they are not fully trained. The thing that sets them apart from everybody is their smoothness and unison. If that is off, it really takes the magic out. In past seasons, it seems like more than almost anyone, V-M programs get better and better as the season goes on. We have seen before V-M lose to D-W at 4C or the GP Final only to beat them at Worlds. So, IMO, if they intend to continue competing, they can't cut back on their training time and still expect to win. If they do show up fully trained, I think they could still beat Davis-White with two clean skates. What the judges clearly won't do, is give them OGM bonus points and put them in first regardless.

pani
12-10-2011, 05:00 PM
If judges love D-W FD its there choice (i dont want discuss this is sport, so why skaters could use different styles) and they coyuld give them high marks in FD. But with this SD - 90% people said they didnt feel latin.

apple123
12-10-2011, 06:03 PM
But that is what some of us are objecting to. The false perception that only D&W have speed. V&M may package their skating differently but it's not as if Tessa and Scott don't carry speed across the ice in their own right. They may not make everything look soooo hard as D&W do but their programs do have speed and difficulty along with the grace and dance ability. Again a more complete package.


This is exactly what bothers me so much. How could the judges turn blind eyes to this? It's ice dance for god's sake, not speed skating. Damn the judges, damn the politics!

OnyxRose81
12-10-2011, 06:53 PM
I posted in the wrong thread and I can't delete this post. How embarrassing. My apologies.

kina
12-10-2011, 07:10 PM
So, IMO, if they intend to continue competing, they can't cut back on their training time and still expect to win.

i don't think it's as simple as that. lest we forget, tessa's legs are still a problem. they no longer want to fix it with surgery. instead they have changed the way they skate and change the want they train. i guess for their mental and physical health, they need those down times and the pacing.

eta. i'll state again that they're taking the grand prix in stride. it's a part of their training, their process, their building. they trust that process, their coaches and they're looking to the entire season.

Shayii
12-10-2011, 08:03 PM
British Eurosport (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9ltDq9r89E)
Rai Sports-Italian commentators (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWKBq9Mq_cI) Anna Cappellini and Luca Lanotte did commentary for this one. Pingu can you translate what they say if you have the time please
I had to post this link too I don't know what language they're speaking (Russian?) but their reaction to the fall is hysterical: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usGA8pHTS2E

cris_c
12-10-2011, 08:30 PM
British Eurosport (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9ltDq9r89E)
Rai Sports-Italian commentators (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWKBq9Mq_cI) Anna Cappellini and Luca Lanotte did commentary for this one. Pingu can you translate what they say if you have the time please

I'll try to aswer, based on what I remember from watching the clips a few hours ago. Basically, they are admitting D/W skated very well technically, but they are swooning over T/S' dancing. Anna says it was obvious they were shaken by the fall and could skate even better. Luca says D/W are energetic and always in command and this is what distinguishes them from a "just good" couple like the Shibutanis. But, he ends, for him still Virtue and Moir "sono di un altra pianetta" (are from a different planet).
In fact, at the end of the competition, while analyzing the results, they said the TES scores are perhaps justified, but the PCS scores are a joke. Anna even laughed, I think, at the 9.50 D-W got for choreography.

sliver98
12-10-2011, 08:33 PM
Anna C is one beautiful lady :D she is right davis and white are boring overrated and propped up.

pani
12-10-2011, 08:40 PM
Anna C is one beautiful lady :D she is right davis and white are boring overrated and propped up.

If Tessa-Scott will not have clean skating, you know why, yes?

cris_c
12-10-2011, 08:44 PM
British Eurosport (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9ltDq9r89E)
Rai Sports-Italian commentators (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWKBq9Mq_cI) Anna Cappellini and Luca Lanotte did commentary for this one. Pingu can you translate what they say if you have the time please
I had to post this link too I don't know what language they're speaking (Russian?) but their reaction to the fall is hysterical: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usGA8pHTS2E

I've just watched again what they say after D/W and it goes like this: The first commentator: "They haven't put a foot wrong, especially in the step sequences. However, I prefer Virtue/Moir, with regard to the interpretation. D/W are less natural. They are very strong, very fast, but the Canadian couple is more natural, it all comes easier to them." Then Luca: I agree. With regard to choreography and interpretation, there is no comparison. Virtue/Moir are so much more above. But the strong points of D/W are their energy, their assureness. Even though they are not very at ease with the latin rhythms, I see in them something I do not see in the Shibutanis. Very good command of the elements, incredible energy, very sure hand and leg movements. This makes the difference between a top couple and a good one, like the Shibutanis. However, in my view, Virtue/Moir are really from another planet."

cris_c
12-10-2011, 09:00 PM
British Eurosport (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9ltDq9r89E)
Rai Sports-Italian commentators (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWKBq9Mq_cI) Anna Cappellini and Luca Lanotte did commentary for this one. Pingu can you translate what they say if you have the time please
I had to post this link too I don't know what language they're speaking (Russian?) but their reaction to the fall is hysterical: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usGA8pHTS2E

And what they say after T/S (I'll translate the most important parts):

The woman commentator: "We are shocked by Scott's fall. You never expect a fall from this extraordinary couple."
Then the male one: "The beginning was absolutely stunning. Scott has unbelievable charisma. Then came the fall, but he recovered very well, very quick."
Then Anna: "They recovered very well, but the rest of the performance was a little bit shaky. But the beginning was incredible. (The other female commentator says they all (the Italians) were dancing in the studio, at the same time). Then Anna says: "I told you so ! I had not seen well their SD at practices (at TEB, I presume), but when I saw it in the competion, we all looked at each other in awe."
Then Luca says that PCS-wise, T/S are unique.
And about the fall, says that Scott caught Tessa's skate. And after the fall, he even "jokes" a little. He is the greatest.

Shayii
12-10-2011, 09:12 PM
Thanks cris_c!

cris_c
12-10-2011, 09:17 PM
Thanks cris_c!

You're welcome, nice to be of help.

Just a quick observation/question. Apart from the American skaters and commentators, have any others said they prefer D/W to V/M?

pani
12-11-2011, 12:27 AM
http://www.lfpress.com/sports/2011/12/10/19106666.html

Tessa were in red dress today at practice. I wish to see black.