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View Full Version : Virtue - Moir #12 Only Audrey and Fred this season on ice



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Rafter
12-10-2011, 02:24 AM
what about their rhumba patterns that you disagree on their score? im curious to see what you're seeing

Well I'm not seeing Meryl on a deep backoutside edge on the choctaw that is the supposed sticking point for getting a level 4. I don't see any difference on this particular move between Meryl and Tessa. I also don't think they've got spectactularly deep edges or good body positions or big patterns that would warrant all the positive GOEs that they're getting. I definitely think V&M have better rhumba patterns than D&W but it's not being reflected in the scores.

Shayii
12-10-2011, 02:58 AM
Okay because it was morning here in Asia, I went back to sleep after checking out the SD scores.

Dream update!

Tessa and who I would assume is an assistant from Team Canton, got scolded by Marina where she said sternly "When are you going to get better?". The assistant was trying to tell Marina that there was this fan (not me) that was harassing Tessa for love affection, and then Marina gave the assistant the smack down saying it's her job to keep Tessa concentrated. Then Tessa said firmly "If the FD makes a difference, I want to continue to do this next year".

THEN (this is really messed up), it's the opening ceremony for the GPF, with naked Finnish men skating only to have a lifesaver around their private parts... Which of course did not do a good job hiding their jewels...

Oh..I once had a dream that during SLC FD, Bourne/Kraatz skated their Michael Jackson routine with a maze setup on the ice. Also I was to represent my country at a World Championship when I don't even know how to skate backwards.

Just like to share, thought it'd lighten up the mood. Hopefully my dream comes true this time, V/M kicks butts at the FD and they can see they are still Gold materials and continue next on year.
:lol::rofl: Omg Walei you're killing me here!!!!! Lmao was this a continuation of the dream you had yesterday of them falling? V/M have invaded your subconscious, that hasn't happened to me yet thank God! No no but this is really funny, where was Scott while Tessa was being yelled at? lol But anyways we know they're not gonna win the FD unless something spectacular happens, but I'll just be sad if they come in like 10 pts overall behind first place.

walei
12-10-2011, 03:23 AM
Yes the dream update was after I woke up early in the morning to see the SD and went back to sleep. Marina was giving them crap at the last few rows of the arena and Scott wasn't in my dream :(

I have a serious chronic sleeping condition that I cannot enter deep sleep and would dream dream dream then wake up, not just skating related. I have even checked into a sleeping clinic and after all the tests they could only give me sleeping pills which I refuse to take.

marbri
12-10-2011, 03:46 AM
I dream about mice because I have a mouse in my house and I want it to leave :eek:

Shayii
12-10-2011, 04:00 AM
Yes the dream update was after I woke up early in the morning to see the SD and went back to sleep. Marina was giving them crap at the last few rows of the arena and Scott wasn't in my dream :(

I have a serious chronic sleeping condition that I cannot enter deep sleep and would dream dream dream then wake up, not just skating related. I have even checked into a sleeping clinic and after all the tests they could only give me sleeping pills which I refuse to take.
Oh dang I'm sorry about that, hopefully they'll figure something out to help you! I think I have a sleeping problem too I've learned to function on 4 hours of sleep, but mine problem is probably because of school and procrastination :D


I dream about mice because I have a mouse in my house and I want it to leave :eek:
:lol:
Anyways when I was watching on the live stream in the morning, it looked like both Tessa and Scott were nervous especially Scott so the fall kinda didn't surprise me. I hope they have a great skate on sun (also hoping Tessa doesn't wear that black dress).

marbri
12-10-2011, 04:07 AM
:lol:
Anyways when I was watching on the live stream in the morning, it looked like both Tessa and Scott were nervous especially Scott so the fall kinda didn't surprise me. I hope they have a great skate on sun (also hoping Tessa doesn't wear that black dress).

Is there some secret message in there for how I get rid of this mouse ;)

Carmen Ovsiannikov
12-10-2011, 04:27 AM
I like the changes they made, including the dress. They are so enjoyable and smoking hot! Fall or no fall, they are the winners for me. On a side note, now I begin to accept that D/W will be the judge's favorite this season again, I can finally relax and enjoy the dances. What's the point to fight it? We all know what happens at last year WC. I know this sounds odd but I'm saying it as what it is.

I'd already gotten to that point even before Scott's fall (:() in the SD. It's almost funny listening to Judy, Andrea and Tanith go on about D&W and V&M being soclose that they don't envy the judges. There is just no difference in the teams. Meanwhile during the repeat of Rostelecom both D&W's and V&M's SD's were shown back to back and I am one of those who sees a few clear differences that all favor V&M.

I can see that the judges want D&W on top so no matter what they will be there. I felt that even with a clean V&M performance, the standings would still be the same so at least we can say Scott wasn't on Today. ITA that the 5 point difference is ridiculous.


My concern is that V&M will think the same and then retire. What's the point of continuing if they're always going to be second?

And I'm sorry but there's no way that SD of D&W's deserves a score of 76.



....But I have to say, I agree with Rafter. Who wants to go on if the scoring will continue to be this ridiculous when you know and everyone around you thinks you are one of the best?

I agree with D/W in first for the SD but definitely not by his much. I don't for a second believe that these two team will duke it out all the way till Sochi. The judges are clearly saying THE best is D/W, and then there is everyone else.

I agree with you and Rafter, walei.


How about we wait until after the dance event at Worlds to decide where they should go because they aren't going anywhere during the season ;)

I know you didn't mean it that way but marbri, sadly I can interpret your comment in another way. Indeed, Tessa and Scott aren't going anywhere this season.

euterpe
12-10-2011, 04:28 AM
For those who think D/W were overscored and V/M underscored, here's a technical analysis of the SD that shows the scoring was correct:

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?35597-Technical-Breakdown-of-the-Senior-GPF-SD

Scott is not prone to falls (unlike Charlie), so the fall rattled him a bit; V/M were just a bit off throughout. However, despite the fall and the level losses, their score is only slightly lower than their previous two outings.

Meanwhile, D/W had all level4s, which they hadn't had in their previous two outings.

IMO, if Scott hadn't fallen, D/W and V/M scores would be thisclose.

Proustable
12-10-2011, 04:52 AM
Not really, though. The fall might have rattled him, but it didn't affect levels (they got a level four on the twizzles, rhumba post-fall and the curve lift) and mostly the GOEs too. They might have lost out a little in the transitions. What doris posted there was one person's take on the technical breakdown, not an "analysis that shows that the scoring was correct." The level losses weren't actually losses compared to what they did at Skate Canada, for example (where they had three level fours, two level threes)

I think that we're seeing the slow fade out of V/M on the international stage, in terms of judges/reputation. But more than that, I think Davis/White really attacked this season more than Virtue/Moir. You can see it in their comments and attitudes. Won't change my preference, of course, but I think that the judges are responding to that somewhat.

sliver98
12-10-2011, 05:02 AM
Weaver and Poje are coming on like gangbusters by next year they should be alot closer to Tessa and Scott maybe they will do what Dubreuil and Lauzon did quit to leave room for their teammates to take the spotlight.

kina
12-10-2011, 05:21 AM
my stream of consciousness...

well to be fair proustable, v/m's comments have focused on trusting their training, their progress and building for worlds. since worlds has yet to happen yet, you can't really judge the success or failure of that strategy right now.

i remember hearing them say in interviews that they had to mislead when it came to their first injury because if judges smell weakness, they mark for it. that's all they see. v/m had to really pretend like tessa was very healthy during the olympics. that's insulting the judges and brings up a great point now that she's had two relapses: how are judges going to react to them nowadays? does the premise that judges will mark for the weakness they know still hold true?

i remember also the head of skate canada, saying recently that he's not focused on the top tier canadian skaters right now. i wish i could find that article again, but i can't. anyway, he's focusing on the second tier and developing future champions. when i read that, i was shocked because v/m may be champions, but you can't just take their success for granted and move on to someone else.

i too am concerned that if v/m don't feel like they can win no matter how they skate, then they'll stop skating. i think that that is last thing ice dance needs. without v/m, it would be d/w vs everyone else by 20-30 points. i think many people hope for a rivalry with v/m because it wouldn't be interesting without them. then the old criticism of ice dance comes back: there's no movement. the ranking is already decided.

today has shades of the olympic year grand prix series and we know how that turned out. it also has shades of tanith's fall at worlds and we know how that turned out.

Proustable
12-10-2011, 05:32 AM
my stream of consciousness...

well to be fair proustable, v/m's comments have focused on trusting their training, their progress and building for worlds. since worlds has yet to happen yet, you can't really judge the success or failure of that strategy right now.

Right, but at the same time, they mention taking it easy - more long weekends and the like.


i remember also the head of skate canada, saying recently that he's not focused on the top tier canadian skaters right now. i wish i could find that article again, but i can't. anyway, he's focusing on the second tier and developing future champions. when i read that, i was shocked because v/m may be champions, but you can't just take their success for granted and move on to someone else.

I recall William Thompson mentioning something similar, but not to that extent. It was more of a warning shot to Kevin Reynolds, I felt, than anything else.


i too am concerned that if v/m don't feel like they can win no matter how they skate, then they'll stop skating. i think that that is last thing ice dance needs. without v/m, it would be d/w vs everyone else by 20-30 points. i think many people hope for a rivalry with v/m because it wouldn't be interesting without them. then the old criticism of ice dance comes back: there's no movement. the ranking is already decided.

I think the rivalry is all but over. I have to admit that makes me sad - I love V/M's dancing and I don't see them as weaker now then they were before, so I don't get why they're being outscored by so much (or more accurately, I understand why, but I largely don't see it). If V/M have really weakened that much technically, then I guess it's fair. But it's disappointing nonetheless.


today has shades of the olympic year grand prix series and we know how that turned out. it also has shades of tanith's fall at worlds and we know how that turned out.

I see the latter more than the former. One team is clearly on an upswing (D/W now, V/M in 2008) and is outpacing their training mates (recalling that V/M's 2007 SC score beat B/A's 2007 SA score). There were rumours of preference in the training camp itself. At this point, I'd be very surprised if V/M ever beats D/W totally again. I can see them maybe sneaking through for a victory in 2013 London a la B/A beating D/W and V/M in LA, but even that was a special circumstance with Tessa's injury. In 2009, I felt like they were still on the upswing to the Olympics. I'm not feeling that now.

Pulaski73
12-10-2011, 05:39 AM
oopsies on the fall... his recovery was unbearably cute though!

kina
12-10-2011, 05:54 AM
here (http://www.canada.com/story_print.html?id=5618268&sponsor=) is the article i mentioned:


As Canadian figure skaters practised for this weekend’s Skate Canada International, Mike Slipchuk, Skate Canada’s high performance director, said he and several of the country’s top coaches would not be analyzing the performances of world champion Patrick Chan or Olympic ice dance champions Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir. Their eyes instead will be focused on the Canadian skaters participating in their first International Skating Union Grand Prix.

i interpret that as v/m are succeeding. good. now, let's turn our attention to the up and coming teams. however, the us federation doesn't have this strategy. even during camp, they watched d/w intently, pick up on problems right away and fix it.

Sahararainfall
12-10-2011, 06:02 AM
I think that we're seeing the slow fade out of V/M on the international stage, in terms of judges/reputation. But more than that, I think Davis/White really attacked this season more than Virtue/Moir. You can see it in their comments and attitudes. Won't change my preference, of course, but I think that the judges are responding to that somewhat.

I don't think so. I think what we are seeing here is that the judges value MC's strengths and the things this team represents (speed, overt athleticism) more than the strengths and things VM value the most (true dance and grace). Nothing wrong with the former (It's sports after all so it is important; otherwise, it should not be in the Olympics) but if this is the message the judges and ISU wants to send, then perhaps they should rename this discipline. The judges may think MC is the best skaters in the ice dance discipline right now, but I still think VM is the best dancers on ice by far (PCS scores be dammed).