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View Full Version : Virtue - Moir #12 Only Audrey and Fred this season on ice



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pani
11-29-2011, 09:09 PM
I am i little wonder. T-S didnt like Malanguenya, but wish Flamenco for OD at OG.
I like Malaguenya, Paso Dobler more, then Flamenkos. So for me its interesting how they could love one spanish music and hate another?
And maybe thats why they dont like Mexican music, which Marina wanted gave them for OG
But i always thought this two cold be great in Paso Doble, Don Qiute, no?

lavenderblue
11-29-2011, 09:12 PM
Of course, the rendition of "Malaguena" used for their 2005-06 FD sounded unfortunately similar to cheesy New Age synth, which may perhaps have been an element of their problem with the program.

They also emphasize that it was a case of settling on something chosen by another. I get the impression that usually, they've made their own choice from scratch or from a selection put before them, or have fallen in love with something earmarked for them (as with Mahler). It's not "paso doble" versus "flamenco" so much as "thrust upon us because we couldn't decide on anything else" versus "chosen from a range of options placed before us."

maggylyn
11-29-2011, 09:35 PM
I'm confused, what is the beef with Judy Blumberg?

I remember her commentary of V/M, I think from Worlds '11. She was very critical.

I noticed that not a single other source, whether in the pbp here at FSU or from the broadcasts of other countries, was in agreement with her.

And I'm no teknic but I've watched skating enough over the years to know if a program is bad or not and I couldn't agree with any of her V/M criticisms.

hitchem
11-29-2011, 10:27 PM
I remember her commentary of V/M, I think from Worlds '11. She was very critical.

I noticed that not a single other source, whether in the pbp here at FSU or from the broadcasts of other countries, was in agreement with her.

And I'm no teknic but I've watched skating enough over the years to know if a program is bad or not and I couldn't agree with any of her V/M criticisms.

Judy was exceedingly harsh on V/M during their SD at Worlds. But to be fair to her, she was also quite tough on D/W during 4CC. She's also the only commentator that I'm aware of who's actually a technical specialist, which explains why she can be so critical. I appreciate her commentary because, even if I sometimes disagree with it, she tends to notice a lot of technical details that other commentators probably miss. E.g., she'll actually point out a missed turn in a footwork sequence and then say it will drop a level.

Also, in her commentary for Universal at SC, she was very, very complimentary of V/M. IIRC, she talked about how polished they looked, the quality of their edges, and the difficulty of their program. She also said they would be extremely difficult for any team to beat.

pani
11-30-2011, 12:39 PM
We had Petr Durnev like a so-commentator few last seasons (he is technical specialist) and it was really hard all time listen his comments, because all russians must have level 4 and all otehrs had "illigal elements". :D They evem took V-M videp from youtube with there first outing with Mahler and did analyz off all there illigals :lol: And yes, he knew a lot about levls, but it was alwayse understanding, what team he love and what team he didnt ;) (evem in Russian team).
I see a lot off common between Judy and Petr ;) And yes, when V-M lose to D-W, when V-M didnt have such a big score, like D-W maybe she could tell something good about them now ;)
And her comments about ,ast year WCh SDs..... Sorry, but i was at arena. D-W didnt skate clean that day. And i was wonder, because V-M skated even more "together" and more "close together" in SD, then they did this at WCh in Torino ;)
And what did she say about D-W SD at CoR this time? I mean did she notice all that "showstorm" and there blades (like she did with V-M SD at WCH)? :D So if she is a specialist, why she didnt saw Meryls jumps during step sequences, her running for being more close o Charlie and that she skate waltz on bent feets and didnt show streight leg lines in competitive programs?

I afraid the most Judy will be technikal specialist at WCh, because USA will not have a judge in ice dance for sure.


Of course, the rendition of "Malaguena" used for their 2005-06 FD sounded unfortunately similar to cheesy New Age synth
I agree with this. This music was from 70-begining of the 80th, like often Svinin-Zhuck like the take such arrengment, his wasnt classical version. But from that interview have impression Scott didnt like this music at all ;) (how he sing it :lol:).

clarie
11-30-2011, 01:52 PM
I afraid the most Judy will be technikal specialist at WCh,

Heaven forbid....:rolleyes: It would be great if there was someone who was objective.

pani
11-30-2011, 01:54 PM
I afraid the most Judy will be technikal specialist at WCh,

Heaven forbid....:rolleyes: It would be great if there was someone who was objective.

I think this will be someone from Russia or USA, because this countries will not have judge at WCh.

literaryfreak
11-30-2011, 03:57 PM
I remember her commentary of V/M, I think from Worlds '11. She was very critical.

I noticed that not a single other source, whether in the pbp here at FSU or from the broadcasts of other countries, was in agreement with her.

And I'm no teknic but I've watched skating enough over the years to know if a program is bad or not and I couldn't agree with any of her V/M criticisms.

I saw most of her points, in both D/W and V/M. I remember that one of her main criticisms was that V/M were slow. And they were - V/M were slower than their usual, I saw that pretty easily from the video. There are others on the web who thought the same. I believe Judy was comparing V/M to themselves which is where all the :drama: came from, she wasn't claiming they were slower than say the 15th place team. Even now, I think speed and stamina are the few areas V/M are still working on to get where they used to be. I can see the difference.

As hitchem said above, at 4CCs that year, she said D/W's midline step sequence in the SD was off. I couldn't see the issue at the time but I watched the video right before Worlds and then saw what she was talking about instantly. She has always given pointed technical comments, which is something you don't see enough of in figure skating commentary IMO.

The level of vitriol I've seen spewed at her (not from you specifically but from others in general over the past months) is frankly ridiculous. That she is somehow not objective because her commentary for V/M was not glowing in one segment of one competition.

pani
11-30-2011, 04:16 PM
My point is - i was at arena and i saw, so i belive myself more.:D
My friend saw Davis mistake in twizzles and said - they will have lower level. Did Judy saw this? D-W were slow compare to there usuall speed, but Judy didnt notice this.
And when i listen, what she is talking about russians :eek: She is talking about too much theatrical dance from them, but did you saw her Fds?
By the way, i will not argue about GPF results and comments, because i will not see this "live" ;)
And i still hope Bulmberg will not be at WCh. Better she will be a commentator - who cares? I will lwatch another channel :lol:

hitchem
11-30-2011, 04:45 PM
My point is - i was at arena and i saw, so i belive myself more.:D
My friend saw Davis mistake in twizzles and said - they will have lower level. Did Judy saw this? D-W were slow compare to there usuall speed, but Judy didnt notice this.
And when i listen, what she is talking about russians :eek: She is talking about too much theatrical dance from them, but did you saw her Fds?
By the way, i will not argue about GPF results and comments, because i will not see this "live" ;)
And i still hope Bulmberg will not be at WCh. Better she will be a commentator - who cares? I will lwatch another channel :lol:

She said that Charlie missed grabbing his skate and they'd get a lower level...which they did. Again, at 4CCs, she was critical of D/W's step sequence, noticed a mistake on their twizzles and also mentioned that they were kicking up snow in their GW pattern. And yes, they were competing against V/M there. (And she didn't do commentary for COR; Tanith did.)

I'm only saying this b/c her commentary is pointed and helpful. I like Tracy quite a bit, but her commentary is really geared toward very casual fans. One can disagree with Judy without thinking she's some crazed D/W fan.

pani
11-30-2011, 04:48 PM
She said that Charlie missed grabbing his skate and they'd get a lower level..
Are you talking about WCh or SA?
Tanith with Judy compete - who love Charlie-angelthe most on Universal Sport :lol:

marbri
11-30-2011, 04:56 PM
I saw most of her points, in both D/W and V/M. I remember that one of her main criticisms was that V/M were slow. And they were - V/M were slower than their usual, I saw that pretty easily from the video. There are others on the web who thought the same. I believe Judy was comparing V/M to themselves which is where all the :drama: came from, she wasn't claiming they were slower than say the 15th place team. Even now, I think speed and stamina are the few areas V/M are still working on to get where they used to be. I can see the difference.

As hitchem said above, at 4CCs that year, she said D/W's midline step sequence in the SD was off. I couldn't see the issue at the time but I watched the video right before Worlds and then saw what she was talking about instantly. She has always given pointed technical comments, which is something you don't see enough of in figure skating commentary IMO.

The level of vitriol I've seen spewed at her (not from you specifically but from others in general over the past months) is frankly ridiculous. That she is somehow not objective because her commentary for V/M was not glowing in one segment of one competition.

Hitchem also said she was
exceedingly harsh on V/M during their SD at Worlds ;) Thatīs what people remember that in a head to head where D&W had the momentum with them of competiting a full season she was calling the SD of their main competition "slow, choppy, snow flying, didn't flow well, wasn't as seamless as expected" but didn't seem to notice anything similar in D&Ws SD, their's was brilliant but for that light moment where Charlie didn't catch his blade on time. Was she in Moscow?

Of course everyone is entitled to their preference and she isn't the first and won't be the last to show a leaning to the hometeam but for a technical specialist she has to be a lot more clever and even in her comments. That fact that she got carried away at worlds and people picked up on it and question her level of fairness now (hoping she won't be on a dance panel) is her own fault. When you have that ISU title next to your name you have to check yourself.

literaryfreak
11-30-2011, 05:17 PM
Hitchem also said she was ;) Thatīs what people remember that in a head to head where D&W had the momentum with them of competiting a full season she was calling the SD of their main competition "slow, choppy, snow flying, didn't flow well, wasn't as seamless as expected" but didn't seem to notice anything similar in D&Ws SD, their's was brilliant but for that light moment where Charlie didn't catch his blade on time. Was she in Moscow?

Of course everyone is entitled to their preference and she isn't the first and won't be the last to show a leaning to the hometeam but for a technical specialist she has to be a lot more clever and even in her comments. That fact that she got carried away at worlds and people picked up on it and question her level of fairness now (hoping she won't be on a dance panel) is her own fault. When you have that ISU title next to your name you have to check yourself.

The commentators are very rarely seeing the comp in person. Are you saying they not be allowed to make remarks? :rolleyes: That she's supposed to go easy on V/M because they hadn't competed the entire year?

My point is that the idea that her commentary here makes her not objective as a technical specialist smacks of incredible paranoia.

Sahararainfall
11-30-2011, 05:19 PM
... skate waltz on bent feet and didn't show straight leg lines in competitive programs?

Newbie questions. Generally in ice dance, if a team has great technical skating skills but has only average dance techniques, would that be reflected on the score? Although great performers can compensate for any deficiency in dance technique I suppose. I know this is all very subjective, but basically I'm just asking if things like those pani mentioned above (and other dance elements) actually get reflected on the score? Where exactly? Performance/execution scores? Interpretation scores?

ETA: I guess as a long time dance fan but a figure skating outsider I find myself separating a team's merit as a skater from their dancing skills. :)

marbri
11-30-2011, 05:20 PM
The commentators are very rarely seeing the comp in person. Are you saying they not be allowed to make remarks? :rolleyes: That she's supposed to go easy on V/M because they hadn't competed the entire year?

My point is that the idea that her commentary here makes her not objective as a technical specialist smacks of incredible paranoia.

So did you genuinely want to know why people were weary of her or did you just want to roll your eyes and bitch at people. Dostatni (sp?) has been getting hate here for years now because people feel he shows Canton teams favourtism. It's something that happens in this sport all the time.