PDA

View Full Version : Frank Carroll on Elizaveta Tuktamisheva



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15

gkelly
10-31-2011, 06:46 PM
And so did he. He did mention her jumps in a way that I consider complimentary. Yes, I mean the "bat out of hell" comment. And many would agree that that's where Elizaveta's good points pretty much end at this stage.

Many, perhaps, but not all. I see other good points in her skating. Not necessarily better than the top older senior ladies, but good for her age, good in the context of the entire senior field, and promising for the future if her physical development doesn't become unfavorable for skating.


As was noted several times above, we don't know that Frank only harped on Liza's bad points. He might have said other complimentary things, but the reporter picked and chose what she wanted to quote.

Very true. No need, really, to use this thread to castigate either Carroll or Tuktamisheva. But then, what would this thread be for?

victoriaheidi
10-31-2011, 06:54 PM
Just because someone says something that is true Ice Alisa doesn't mean they said it in the right way or they couldn't be said. Frank made an offhanded comment about wonderful jumps but didn't really get into the fact that Tukt's technique is extremely good. And sets her apart from other 14 year old girls.

When you are quick to bring up someone's bad points, while failing to bring up their good points, there can lead to a bad taste. He pretty much for the most part went pretty big on her big points, while downplaying her very good points...Frank would have been saying the same things but in a less controversial tone, while given the skater more credit for her good points? Nobody would have had issue with those words.

But how do you know he didn't address her great technique? We only know what was quoted.

If he didn't, either way, imagine watching a really bad performance from your student (who was forecasted to at least medal) and then having thirty microphones and cameras jammed in your face with people screaming things like, "Mr. Carroll, what do you think of Elizaveta Tuktamysheva?" In the heat of the moment, it's not going to be easy to plan out a brilliant, politically correct and well-thought-out response. You'll whip something out, answer the question, and wind up getting flamed on a message board.

Personally? I think he was spot-on. Could he say it better? Of course. But that doesn't discount the fact that he basically targeted all her problems and her strong points. I doubt he was trying to offend anyone.

PS: PDilemma, you're my new signature on another website. :cool:

peibeck
10-31-2011, 07:25 PM
I think people are blowing these comments WAY out of proportion as some kind of insult. I don't think Carroll is saying anything a lot of other posters have not previously said regarding Liza: She's an AMAZING young athlete, but time is still needed to develop her artistic side further; and we will all have to wait and see if she gets taller/adds more body mass and how that might effect her jumps.

victoriaheidi
10-31-2011, 07:37 PM
I think people are blowing these comments WAY out of proportion as some kind of insult. I don't think Carroll is saying anything a lot of other posters have not previously said regarding Liza: She's an AMAZING young athlete, but time is still needed to develop her artistic side further; and we will all have to wait and see if she gets taller/adds more body mass and how that might effect her jumps.

Agreed.

overedge
10-31-2011, 07:45 PM
The poster was commenting on who would comment nicely on rival's skaters. I was pointing out plenty of people did/do.


I don't see how that obliges Frank Carroll to do the same.

senorita
10-31-2011, 07:46 PM
I dont think that many would agree that Liza has just the jumps. She got praized a lot by commentators and press. She had the mentality to compete in her first gp and win it, had eye contact and a smile in her programs, it is not like ALL juniors come to seniors with a bang. But anyway in this age this is what it is mostly important for her future career. Where would she be if her jumps were a mess but her spins like Lipnitskaya?

bek
10-31-2011, 07:47 PM
But how do you know he didn't address her great technique? We only know what was quoted.

If he didn't, either way, imagine watching a really bad performance from your student (who was forecasted to at least medal) and then having thirty microphones and cameras jammed in your face with people screaming things like, "Mr. Carroll, what do you think of Elizaveta Tuktamysheva?" In the heat of the moment, it's not going to be easy to plan out a brilliant, politically correct and well-thought-out response. You'll whip something out, answer the question, and wind up getting flamed on a message board.

Personally? I think he was spot-on. Could he say it better? Of course. But that doesn't discount the fact that he basically targeted all her problems and her strong points. I doubt he was trying to offend anyone.

PS: PDilemma, you're my new signature on another website. :cool:

It is totally possible that he did and just the quotes were mentioned. He did compare her to MK at that age...This being said the whole imagine your student does poorly and everyone asks you about Elizaveta... I can only say, thats kind of where people wonder about the bitterness part.

However this being said I actually think Frank should be glad about these young Russians coming up (In a small way) because it may be the ONLY thing that gives Nagasu the kick in the butt she frankly needs. Nagasu's been told she's the next best thing for awhile now. And hey Kim/Asada are out of the way etc. And I wonder if that perhaps is whats leading to the stagnating not showing up as trained as she could be.

The arrival of these baby Russians (and Murakami too although the young Russians seem to be more consistent) if they aren't a wakeup call to Nagasu, I don't know what will be. And I actually think Frank should frame it to her this way. Already 2/3 have Grand Prix titles, whereas Mirai's got nada. She's no longer the cute "future" she just needs to get some maturity kid of the skating world.

Mirai's still young enough to get her act together and be a big star in the skating world. But she absolutely needs to get her act together, because the judges have new little prodigies. And so far two of those little prodigies Tukt and Murakami, are delivering on their part of the bargain.

PDilemma
10-31-2011, 08:35 PM
PS: PDilemma, you're my new signature on another website. :cool:

I'm very honored. :encore:

Mayra
10-31-2011, 10:26 PM
I really don't think Frank meant the comments on Elizaveta as an insult. I think he called it as he saw it and the comparison to Kwan was telling. There is no doubt in my mind he probably relayed a similar message to Kwan in 1994-1995 and that is what helped transform her from jumping bean to the skater she developed into in 1996 and beyond.

He doesn't seem the type to mince words, even with his own athletes.

rfisher
10-31-2011, 10:34 PM
I think people are blowing these comments WAY out of proportion as some kind of insult. I don't think Carroll is saying anything a lot of other posters have not previously said regarding Liza: She's an AMAZING young athlete, but time is still needed to develop her artistic side further; and we will all have to wait and see if she gets taller/adds more body mass and how that might effect her jumps.

Ya think? :lol: I foresee years of :argue: and uber craziness. Ah the progression from the MK/Tara wars to Mao/Yuna to Russian vs Russians. Only the names of the players are different.

smarts1
10-31-2011, 11:18 PM
Come on guys. Frank didn't anything too mean. Most of us have said the same things about Liza. It's nothing out of the ordinary. There's no reason to read into his words so much.

bek
11-01-2011, 03:14 AM
Ya think? :lol: I foresee years of :argue: and uber craziness. Ah the progression from the MK/Tara wars to Mao/Yuna to Russian vs Russians. Only the names of the players are different.

:rofl: I'm not looking forward to Adelina is horrible no Elizaveta is horrible. I may have preferred (Kim although feelings have changed) but I adore Mao too.

This being said for me its really not about the kids, at this point as that I'm happy for the Russian skating to finally have some young stars to be excited about. And I'm happy for European ladies skating that they are getting some young female stars too. Americans want to complain how long its been for us. Well a European lady hasn't won Olympic Gold since Oksana. And how long has it been since a young Russian girl has won a GP title, I believe since Irina?

People may not like the Russian federation's actions, but skating is very popular there it seems (look at the attendance at Moscow Worlds). Its only a good thing that they are getting some current stars to be excited about. For the sports overall popularity. Nobody's saying that FRank has to be thrilled or praise Tukt to the high heavens. But the whole tone/way it was quoted kind of felt like rain on their little parade. She won't even be at worlds this year so it wasn't really necessary. Maybe he didn't mean it that way.

bardtoob
11-01-2011, 04:10 AM
. . . going after a 14 year old, for being 14.

:rofl: Sandra Bezic. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMpLejOZkm4#t=4m43s) :wuzrobbed wuzrobbed

bek
11-01-2011, 04:36 AM
:rofl: Sandra Bezic. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMpLejOZkm4#t=4m43s) :wuzrobbed wuzrobbed

But Sandra said a lot of good in the comments and mainly praisworthy stuff. So not the same thing. Plus it was worlds, not a small grand prix event. Michelle was really robbed I think at that worlds. A better skater certainly than Surya.

TwizzlerS
11-01-2011, 04:45 AM
I, for one, found FC's remarks refreshing and candid. I enjoy it when someone says it like they see it. And judging from the over 5000 views and 7 pages of posts, I don't think I'm alone.