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VIETgrlTerifa
11-04-2011, 05:32 AM
No. Sometimes something being creative is creative, but not very memorable. I think in order for something to be exceptional, it has to be memorable or something really special. I heard a lot of things about Oksana that was memorable and outstanding, but her spirals aren't really one of them.

gkelly
11-04-2011, 12:12 PM
I particular remember Baiul for the position with the free leg straight in front, held by the opposite hand. In my notes I abbreviate it as OB position (for Oksana Baiul), but since it's usually on a back outside edge then ROB or LOB tells me both the edge and the position. For an inside or forward edge I'd add an I and/or F somewhere.

orbitz
11-04-2011, 02:25 PM
Oksana not only had very good spirals, but she was very creative with them. She also had wonderful lines. Go watch her (mostly pro) routines. Watch her 94 SP, her exhibition 'The swan'.

I don't think baiu had a good regular spiral and that was why she did the variations with the arm holding up the free leg that she did. They were also always done at slow speed.

Marco
11-04-2011, 03:56 PM
Irina S. is the only Russian female skater that has a decent layback position. What is it with Russian ladies and ugly laybacks?

Actually I think Makarova should hold that title.

Fashionista
11-05-2011, 07:48 PM
Nope, Biryukova
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_cEfFx3WVk#t=00m58s

museksk8r
11-06-2011, 12:53 AM
I <3 Elizaveta! She's got power, a winner's attitude, great technique, and I find her quite cute and charming. Keep smiling, Liza! :D

Frankie can put a sock in it! :blah::shuffle:

ProgramerUSFS
11-06-2011, 02:06 AM
I <3 Elizaveta! She's got power, a winner's attitude, great technique, and I find her quite cute and charming. Keep smiling, Liza! :D

Frankie can put a sock in it! :blah::shuffle:

To me Frank is doing his job. He's really playing the politic side of skating. If I were a world judge and read his comments, which I would think most will hear about it. As I watch her skate and go to score her, the though of what Frank said would be in my mind. Even though I may think her jumps are great, and her age is wonderful, i would mark her scores down because Frank is correct and everybody is watching for it now. Frank really hacked some score off the Russian's. Folks, it isn't all about skating. Coaches have more work then that. lol

krenseby
11-06-2011, 03:09 AM
To me Frank is doing his job. He's really playing the politic side of skating. If I were a world judge and read his comments, which I would think most will hear about it. As I watch her skate and go to score her, the though of what Frank said would be in my mind. Even though I may think her jumps are great, and her age is wonderful, i would mark her scores down because Frank is correct and everybody is watching for it now. Frank really hacked some score off the Russian's. Folks, it isn't all about skating. Coaches have more work then that. lol

The problem is that not everyone is playing the politics game. For every judge who has heard crititicisms of Elizaveta's skating that might impact his or her marks, other skaters don't get the same level of scrunity? Have the judges yet been given a case for how terrible Czisny, Kostner, and Nagasu's skating is? The politics game isn't fair, because some skaters get the brunt of the criticism and others aren't criticized as much.

VIETgrlTerifa
11-06-2011, 05:24 AM
Doesn't everybody play the politics game? Some just do it publicly while others are more covert about it.

kwanfan1818
11-06-2011, 07:18 AM
Am i the only person who thought " why not have different scoring systems for each singles discipline?" I think that it would not be a bad idea to have the women scored more conservatively and limit their triples per program and to keep the mens where it is.
They already are, with one less jumping pass.


In fact, I'd like to see the senior ladies given an 8th jumping pass and 15-30 more seconds of program time to work with, and let them fill it with a creative use of double jump(s) if they've run out of triples
This would apply to all of the Ladies without a 3A, which is practically all of them, now and historically.

I think that the Zayak rule should be applied to first triples only. If there's such a risk that a skater would do two 3T's or a 3T/3T and a 3T/3T/3T, then second triples could be limited to once as second jump. I really don't care if a skater does 3T/3T and a solo 3T in the same FS. Not that many Ladies can land a rotated 3T/3T. Senior Men aren't going to get much farther with that jump layout.


What could be done would be to use the full value of the PCS for the ladies, as for the men, instead of factoring them by 0.8 as is currently the case. That would make the PCS worth more, comparative to jump content, in ladies' skating than in men's. Which would make the results a little more subjective, but in the direction that many people want to see -- rewarding basic skating and presentation more highly, areas that grown young women tend to do better at than young adolescents at the peak of their jumping ability.

Removal of elements and non-level elements have added weight to PCS already; practically men get back TES based on higher values for 3A's and quads. Changing the Zayak rule should mean more 3/3 combos particularly for the men and higher base TES: now they strategically decide to do two of the same quads, lutzes, or flips rather than two 3T's.

If they added an eighth pass for senior Ladies, that would offset some of the 20% added back to the PCS, but not much for doubles. Changing the Zayak rule could raise it a bit more.

I think that Men's and Ladies' programs should have the same program lengths and jumping passes and elements, allowing men to do spiral sequences instead of a second footwork pass and vice versa for Ladies, and for the layback spin to be optional for both genders.

Jaana
11-06-2011, 07:50 AM
To me Frank is doing his job. He's really playing the politic side of skating. If I were a world judge and read his comments, which I would think most will hear about it. As I watch her skate and go to score her, the though of what Frank said would be in my mind. Even though I may think her jumps are great, and her age is wonderful, i would mark her scores down because Frank is correct and everybody is watching for it now. Frank really hacked some score off the Russian's. Folks, it isn't all about skating. Coaches have more work then that. lol

So, it is politics if one sees ETs jumping as great, but many other areas in her skating (and especially the interpretation) still needing improvement? I think that Besame Much was a totally wrong choice for such a young skater participating in a senior competiton. In my opinion many of her PCS scores were way too high.

skateboy
11-06-2011, 07:58 AM
Bottom line is that Frank, a respected coach of many champions, has taken the low road in trash talking this talented girl who is a threat to his precious Mirai. Not cool. How many other coaches are doing that? Shut up Frank, you look like a bitter old fool.

Zemgirl
11-06-2011, 12:16 PM
My problem with the "Frank is just doing his job as a politician" argument is that if the situation were reversed and someone had been politikking so blatantly against one of his skaters, he would have been screaming about how it's a grand conspiracy to wuzrob his skaters - after all, he sees conspiracies even where none exist (remember how the biased tech callers were after Evan Lysacek a couple of years ago?). This makes him a hypocrite, and unsportsmanlike besides. And I don't care how many good skaters he's worked with.

Jaana - the difference is that you're a fan expressing a (perfectly legitimate) opinion in a forum. Carroll is in a position of power, and he's using it in a calculated way against a 14 year old. It's not something to applaud.

essence_of_soy
11-06-2011, 01:35 PM
TEB is going to be one heck of a competition in two weeks!

Coco
11-06-2011, 08:56 PM
TEB is going to be one heck of a competition in two weeks!

you're not kidding! on the ladies side, that field is stacked!