PDA

View Full Version : Frank Carroll on Elizaveta Tuktamisheva



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 [11] 12 13 14 15

Coco
11-02-2011, 02:31 AM
OK, sorry for the drift, but that whole "they only thing they can fault her for is being 14" + the following year's theme of "she won because she changed her hair, makeup & costume" are a large part of why US ladies skating is in the doldrums, imo. Sooooooo much attention to the "external" side of skating and so little to the athletic side. "95 Michelle" vs "94 Michelle" was no contest because the older Michelle increased her speed A LOT. After '98, she upped her speed again. These were REALLY significant upgrades that played a huge role in her major victories, but they were almost never mentioned on US broadcasts.

nubka
11-02-2011, 03:40 AM
It amazes me that so many people at FSU are able to know, without doubt, the thoughts and motivations of others.

Didn't you know? It's a prerequisite for membership here at FSU! :D

bek
11-02-2011, 03:51 AM
It amazes me that so many people at FSU are able to know, without doubt, the thoughts and motivations of others.

I don't think people pursume to know what Frank's thinking. But they do persume to think that a coach of Frank's level, who teaches jumps, technique. Would know the difference between a 14 year old Caroline Zhang's jumps, and Elizaveta Tuktamisheva's jumps.

Frank's "bat out of hell" comment may have been she just rotates fast. But it was in the contest of she's small so she can rotate. He may have said wonderful jumps (Elizaveta) but he attributed nothing to Tukt's actual skill. (While stating the obvious about the immaturity). Its just not fair to put Elizaveta in the category of kids who are only able to do their jumps because they are itsy bitzy. Yes if Elizaveta because 5-7 it may be all bets or off. But as long as puberty isn't too horrific she's in very good shape precisely because or that technique.

I think people found that comment the most unfair because it lumped Elizaveta together with every 13 year old jumping bean around. And to be frank not all of these jumping beans are the same.

IceAlisa
11-02-2011, 03:51 AM
Many, perhaps, but not all. I see other good points in her skating. Not necessarily better than the top older senior ladies, but good for her age, good in the context of the entire senior field, and promising for the future if her physical development doesn't become unfavorable for skating.


Was he required to catalog all the good points as per gkelly? :confused: Again, consider the context.

skateboy
11-02-2011, 06:10 AM
Well, Frank's always been pretty much a prick, so his comments don't surprise me at all. But the man knows his skating.

bek
11-02-2011, 07:00 AM
Was he required to catalog all the good points as per gkelly? :confused: Again, consider the context.

No absolutely not. But then he doesn't have to bring up her drawbacks. Thing is if this was Mishin, and it was a young America star had debuted on the GP not even old enough for Senior Worlds I don't think Americans would appreciate him going over her/his obvious drawbacks that can't be helped etc. Mishin and the rest didn't launch in to a ditrabe in either Mirai or Zhang's case about their flaws/faults.

Marco
11-02-2011, 07:43 AM
I think it is narrow minded to think Carroll said what he said out of spite. Nagasu was not a real rival for Tuk at this competition. If Carroll had paid attention to Nagasu's training prior to this competition and to Japan Open he would know this.

He is just someone who is extremely accomplished and experienced in the field, expressing an opinion about what he saw when asked.

Bottom line is it is hard to disagree with what he said (because he was spot on IMO). He might not be the most PC person / coach in his answers, but why does he have to be? He isn't an ambassador or in a beauty pagaent.

bek
11-02-2011, 08:19 AM
I think it is narrow minded to think Carroll said what he said out of spite. Nagasu was not a real rival for Tuk at this competition. If Carroll had paid attention to Nagasu's training prior to this competition and to Japan Open he would know this.

He is just someone who is extremely accomplished and experienced in the field, expressing an opinion about what he saw when asked.

Bottom line is it is hard to disagree with what he said (because he was spot on IMO). He might not be the most PC person / coach in his answers, but why does he have to be? He isn't an ambassador or in a beauty pagaent.

Frank's not an ambassador/beauty pagent but at times he can make comments that hurt the sport. The 1980 thing and the French/Russian callers are making Evan's flip a lip/3axel. I'm sorry Evan does lip and he does have 3axel issues, and to blame that on politics isn't right. Lets not even get into 1980.

Jaana
11-02-2011, 10:37 AM
I appreciated the FC interview, great to read something that is not just gushing, but actually includes impressions that are about the same I plainly saw in the skating of this junior skater.

In my opinion it is a great pity, that junior skaters are allowed to participate in senior GP. Yes, she is a great jumper, but in many other areas she just is not mature enough to compete among senior skaters. Also I think that she should not have won, the judges should have put her PCS scores more down. My guess is that her wonderful jumping blinded...

gkelly
11-02-2011, 01:50 PM
Was he required to catalog all the good points as per gkelly? :confused: Again, consider the context.

The context of my statement was I was disagreeing with your comment that Tuktamysheva's good points end with her ability to rotate.

I was not replying to Carroll at all.

crystalice
11-02-2011, 02:02 PM
Agree with all statements.


Frank is wise.

:rofl: Thanks guys for being sarcastic.

attyfan
11-02-2011, 02:07 PM
... I think people found that comment the most unfair because it lumped Elizaveta together with every 13 year old jumping bean around. And to be frank not all of these jumping beans are the same.

All that Frank pointed out was that you can't tell which 13 year old jumping beans will amount to anything until more time has passed ... it is time and time only that will determine if Elizaveta is the Russian Kwan or not. Certainly, I don't think Frank makes comparisons to Kwan with skaters that he thinks aren't any good. I also can't help but wonder if Frank's comments were affected by his own experience with kids who have been surrounded by too much gush and hype.

query5
11-02-2011, 03:30 PM
first of all thank you for telling me what age.
i can't keep track of it with all the skaters changing coaches , and what not.

as far as frank--it was MY Opinion only.

the only reason i brought it up about Frank going to Mirai is because it was stated in previous attempts on this FSU Board that Frank went to Mirai.

I usually thought the skaters went to Him. but through a debate it was brought up that Frank went to Mirai (might be inaccuracte) also it came out in a paper that he did mention watching Mirai at junior nationals, senior nationals and thought he had talent-whether that prompted him to go to her or not i don't know. but views on this board thought otherwise.

so if i am inaccurate regarding that account -so is alot of people on this board with mirai.

As I stated earlier-this is what I thought might be reason for Franks assessment-not what he knows but What I Think.

bek
11-02-2011, 03:40 PM
All that Frank pointed out was that you can't tell which 13 year old jumping beans will amount to anything until more time has passed ... it is time and time only that will determine if Elizaveta is the Russian Kwan or not. Certainly, I don't think Frank makes comparisons to Kwan with skaters that he thinks aren't any good. I also can't help but wonder if Frank's comments were affected by his own experience with kids who have been surrounded by too much gush and hype.

Actually I think though the best thing going for Elizaveta is that she isn't the only Great Russian hope. She's one of many; she even said this, and as such probably realizes she will have to produce results. In contrast I think perhaps part of Mirai's problems is that once Zhang started to falter out she was pretty much told "your the future, your the future" and hyped a lot more than her counterparts (for good reason)

IceAlisa
11-02-2011, 03:48 PM
:rofl: Thanks guys for being sarcastic.

I take it you haven't seen us being sarcastic. ;)