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Theatregirl1122
10-28-2011, 03:48 AM
Well, hopefully this weekend...

The thing is, both Adam and Brandon had them planned for the GP. Adam had the first shot. But since the ISU has done away with previous protocol of only ratifying jumps from international events, Brandon got the jump. (Not to say he wouldn't have- it's possible Adam wouldn't go for it, or would miss it, and Brandon would get to try it at his GP.)

I adore Adam. If he lands a quad lutz, I'll throw a parade. I don't think it much matters if he's first. And okay, it's a little weird to ratify a jump not landed in ISU competition. But wouldn't it be weirder to run around saying that Adam was the first man to land a quad lutz in competition when we all have the video evidence that Brandon did it first? If Adam were to do it this weekend, he'd still be the first skater to do it in ISU competition. But we all know that Brandon did it first and we can all see it on video. So it's better that the ISU just acknowledge it.

DFJ
10-28-2011, 03:54 AM
Go Brandon!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#45070764

barbk
10-28-2011, 03:55 AM
Did the ISU homologate Midori's 3 Axel?

What I notice in re-watching the NHK 1988 footage was the incredible height she got on the jumps -- both the triple lutz and the triple axel were really high compared to most of the jumps we see today even from the guys.

DickButtonFan
10-28-2011, 04:56 AM
Go Brandon!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#45070764

Wow, mentioned on Maddow, now I'm impressed :D

Ziggy
10-28-2011, 05:09 AM
Oh, no Brandon, you didn't! My head is spinning.

When asked by NPR's Melissa Block, "Some people say competitive figure skating is too much about jumps and not enough about the aesthetics. Do you think they have a point? Brandon's response:

"That is a very good question. There's a lot of controversy about that. I think that it takes two... skating is about the other stuff, and about maybe the art... I think for guys skating, it is a little more athletic than women's [skating]. People watch the female skaters, and they're very pretty on the ice and that's more for the art. But I think for men, at least for me, I love the jumps and being an athlete doing the tricks."

What a total tool! :blah:

Somebody organise gender mainstreaming for him asap! :P

And yes, we can see that Brandon. There is nothing but the jumps in your programs.


Go Brandon!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#45070764

It's amazing to see figure skating being given so much recognition in the mainstream media. Doesn't happen often.

Kudos to Rachel Maddow. :)

(Even though she is as annoying as hell and I'd rather bathe in acid than ever watch her speak again :P)

Really
10-28-2011, 05:26 AM
Kudos to Rachel Maddow. :)

(Even though she is as annoying as hell and I'd rather bathe in acid than ever watch her speak again :P)I caught her bit about Mroz on satellite radio as I was coming home from work tonight -- I was impressed at the mainstream coverage! Yay!

koolloop
10-28-2011, 06:03 AM
While the quad lutz he did was great and all, I don't think it should have been ratified (...homologated.) because:

a) He did no footwork preceding the jump in the short program. Should have been automatic -GOE across the board.

b) The ISU is basing their decision on YOUTUBE footage. Low framerate, low quality footage. Was this Youtube video the same footage available to the tech panel and judges when reviewing the jump? (ie: same camera angle?)

c) I disagree with the ratification of jumps done at non-ISU sanctioned competitions. It's one thing to do the jump in practice, another to do it in a small competition with no pressure (and I'm presuming an all US tech and judging panel). It's completely different to do it in front of the scrutiny of an entire ISU tech and judging panel (who might have judged the GOE more accordingly with the rules?...) not to mention the added pressure of doing it where there are stakes involved.


In any case, I don't think its fair to the other skaters who are trying to be the first for this achievement - it's unlikely anyone knew that the ISU would start ratifying jumps based on Youtube videos of small summer comps before this.

semogal
10-28-2011, 06:14 AM
Caught the coverage of the quad on Rachel Maddow tonight. It looked more impressive on the tv screen than the laptop! Good for Brandon...heck it has been a good night for St. Louis!!!

t.mann
10-28-2011, 08:21 AM
c) I disagree with the ratification of jumps done at non-ISU sanctioned competitions. It's one thing to do the jump in practice, another to do it in a small competition with no pressure (and I'm presuming an all US tech and judging panel). It's completely different to do it in front of the scrutiny of an entire ISU tech and judging panel (who might have judged the GOE more accordingly with the rules?...) not to mention the added pressure of doing it where there are stakes involved.

ITA.

Ziggy
10-28-2011, 08:34 AM
While the quad lutz he did was great and all, I don't think it should have been ratified (...homologated.) because:

a) He did no footwork preceding the jump in the short program. Should have been automatic -GOE across the board.

That is true. I would have given him -3 GOE. But that still doesn't change the fact that the jump was landed.


b) The ISU is basing their decision on YOUTUBE footage. Low framerate, low quality footage. Was this Youtube video the same footage available to the tech panel and judges when reviewing the jump? (ie: same camera angle?)

Good question. While there is no doubt that the jump has been cleanly landed, it looks like the video has been provided by some outside company and isn't the tech panel video?

But you are splitting hairs here. ;)


c) I disagree with the ratification of jumps done at non-ISU sanctioned competitions. It's one thing to do the jump in practice, another to do it in a small competition with no pressure (and I'm presuming an all US tech and judging panel). It's completely different to do it in front of the scrutiny of an entire ISU tech and judging panel (who might have judged the GOE more accordingly with the rules?...) not to mention the added pressure of doing it where there are stakes involved.

I totally, wholeheartedly agree with you on this point.

Such a small competition is more akin to a practice session than real competition. It allows you to taste the waters, try some things out, get feedback.

Hence I wouldn't personally homologate it.


In any case, I don't think its fair to the other skaters who are trying to be the first for this achievement - it's unlikely anyone knew that the ISU would start ratifying jumps based on Youtube videos of small summer comps before this.

It definitely sets the precedent.

casken
10-28-2011, 10:37 AM
"That is a very good question. There's a lot of controversy about that. I think that it takes two... skating is about the other stuff, and about maybe the art... I think for guys skating, it is a little more athletic than women's [skating]. People watch the female skaters, and they're very pretty on the ice and that's more for the art. But I think for men, at least for me, I love the jumps and being an athlete doing the tricks."

It's that type of rhetoric that will get you full support from the USFSA and a push to make you national champion, no matter how unrealistic the PCS have to be. :P

briancoogaert
10-28-2011, 10:55 AM
I've only watched his 4Lz attempt on youtube (practices). It was so good. I'm happy he did it in competition, and got ratified. :)

skatefan
10-28-2011, 11:21 AM
c) I disagree with the ratification of jumps done at non-ISU sanctioned competitions. It's one thing to do the jump in practice, another to do it in a small competition with no pressure (and I'm presuming an all US tech and judging panel). It's completely different to do it in front of the scrutiny of an entire ISU tech and judging panel (who might have judged the GOE more accordingly with the rules?...) not to mention the added pressure of doing it where there are stakes involved.


In any case, I don't think its fair to the other skaters who are trying to be the first for this achievement - it's unlikely anyone knew that the ISU would start ratifying jumps based on Youtube videos of small summer comps before this.

Good points here - I do agree with you. I guess it would have been better for the ISU to have announced this policy change in advance of the season along with other changes made. Clearly it wasn't a rule they had anticipated changing as other ratifications had all been done according to their rules ie at an ISU event.


That is true. I would have given him -3 GOE. But that still doesn't change the fact that the jump was landed.
Ah, but there's the rub, would the jump have been landed if the required steps had been done ;) It would perhaps have been more appropriate to have done the jump in the free programme where there isn't the requirement? Maybe the plan was to attempt it in the short and then again in the free should it not work out. Anyhow, it's done, landed, ratified and on the record :P And it was really good :)



Hence I wouldn't personally homologate it ... It definitely sets the precedent.
Perhaps it would have been better for the ISU to stick to their own rules. But I can fully understand why Brandon wanted to be the first to land the lutz cleanly in competition, whether ratified or not.

antmanb
10-28-2011, 11:37 AM
Good points here - I do agree with you. I guess it would have been better for the ISU to have announced this policy change in advance of the season along with other changes made. Clearly it wasn't a rule they had anticipated changing as other ratifications had all been done according to their rules ie at an ISU event.

The trouble is that the ISU tends to be reactive in these circumstances. People have been attempting quad lutzes in compeition since 1997/1998 and for all the off season talk of great practice ones, even great warm up ones, the clean one in competition hadn't happened. So i think they did the only sensible thing they could. Otherwise like someone mentioned up thread (theatregirl?) you end up with with a nonsensical "first" in ISU competition, when we have youtube footage of the actual first one landed in competition.



Ah, but there's the rub, would the jump have been landed if the required steps had been done ;)
Doesn't seem to bother the judges that much when most of the ladies and plenty of the men don't bother putting steps before the solo jump in the SP. That or swizzles are apparently steps now :P

skatefan
10-28-2011, 11:43 AM
The trouble is that the ISU tends to be reactive in these circumstances. People have been attempting quad lutzes in compeition since 1997/1998 and for all the off season talk of great practice ones, even great warm up ones, the clean one in competition hadn't happened. So i think they did the only sensible thing they could.
Oh, I agree that it was the only sensible thing to do :)

Especially because it was soooo good.




Doesn't seem to bother the judges that much when most of the ladies and plenty of the men don't bother putting steps before the solo jump in the SP. That or swizzles are apparently steps now :P
:lol: True


Although I don't know what swizzles are :shuffle: