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Ziggy
10-27-2011, 07:53 PM
No one wants to debate whether a jump in a non-ISU competition should have been ratified (homologated, whatever) as THE first?

((((Adam R :wuzrobbed)))) (maybe)

Huh? When?

aftershocks
10-27-2011, 08:04 PM
Congratulations to Brandon! I hope he continues to find success in skating with his jumps and with his personal expression.


The first successful triple axel by a woman (NHK 1988) was immaculate and spectacular.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEqxigccU1s

As was the first successful one in the Olympics (1992 Albertville). Midori's first world championship attempt (1989 Paris) was slightly over-rotated.


Thanks, that's the one I was thinking of :) I knew it was a first and that while she hung onto the landing, there was no question about any lack of rotation or errors with the free leg.

Midori's 1988 lp Olympic performance was the highlight of the women's event, and she didn't even perform 3-axel there. It was exciting to watch her skate. Probably even more fireworks were felt if you were in the actual arena.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2KDAughr80&feature=related

At 1989 Worlds, Midori had slimmed down a bit and had been working on improving what everyone felt was her weakness: the presentation side.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKGasODrAcU

I can't watch that performance without being uplifted. Very slight over-rotation on 3-axel took nothing away from Midori's performance. It showed her determination, and the landing she held onto on one leg ... spectacular. For me, one of the ten best moments in figure skating. So what, the leg wrap on some jumps, so what a lot of crossovers. Look at Midori's energy, her joy, the height on her jumps, her attack. To me, her overall positions and flow over the ice are quite pleasing. "Airplane arms?" The better to launch herself high into the air and into our hearts, I'd say. Midori tried very hard after her early successes to work on artistry and lyrical expression. And isn't it great that she came back as an adult and is still working hard, gaining and giving enjoyment and satisfaction. Midori was a dynamo on the ice. Any so-called lack of "presentation" skills, to me was more than made up with by the sheer excitement of watching her, by the joy, enthusiasm and grace she exuded. Some may not feel her movements were graceful, but to me grace came from her heart and bubbled out through her smile and touched everyone she met through her engaging personality.


Looked to me like a double toe-loop from a RFI three turn.

Thanks for pointing that out. Very pretty and effortless. Sometimes the simplest of jumps/ elements are the most memorable and pleasing to the eye.

Regarding someone's humorous comment that now it will be important for all the men to perform a quad lutz, I hope that steady progress will be made with quad jumps in a way that helps skating and skaters ... in a way that flows with programs and combines with all the elements and artistic aspects for a whole that is satisfying and exciting.

Regarding "homologated," I also had to look up this word. There are actually a great number of words that begin with the prefix "homo." Also interesting: Greek homo = same, equal, like, similar; while Latin homo = mankind; and Greek hetero = different.

Not surprising that we who follow figure skating are so hyper aware and antsy regarding these terms. ;)

Skittl1321
10-27-2011, 08:14 PM
Huh? When?

Well, hopefully this weekend...

The thing is, both Adam and Brandon had them planned for the GP. Adam had the first shot. But since the ISU has done away with previous protocol of only ratifying jumps from international events, Brandon got the jump. (Not to say he wouldn't have- it's possible Adam wouldn't go for it, or would miss it, and Brandon would get to try it at his GP.)

I think when this video first came out we discussed how "firsts" had been decided by skate order at an event, where two skaters did the same element, but the earlier skater is credited with the first, by luck of the draw.

But no, Adam has not yet landed a quad in competition. Just those gorgeous two arms above his head triples. I really prefer Adam's skating, so I was hoping he would get the quad first, but Brandon's jump is just absolutely beautiful in the video, so I am happy for him too.


-------------------------------
In other news a coworker of mine just came up and said "so, did you see some guy landed a quadruple lutz?" He said the story was on NPR. So mainstream news has picked it up :)

Jozet
10-27-2011, 08:40 PM
In other news a coworker of mine just came up and said "so, did you see some guy landed a quadruple lutz?" He said the story was on NPR. So mainstream news has picked it up :)

Mroz is going to be (was?) interviewed on NPRs All Things Considered today:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/10/27/141764511/our-heads-are-spinning-u-s-skater-nailed-first-quadruple-lutz

MacMadame
10-27-2011, 08:51 PM
uffle:, but there was absolutely nothing else going on with Midori's skating, was there? The original Miss Jumping Bean Airplane Arms.
What I noticed is how young and tiny she was.


I'm still wondering if there is something different between ratifying and homologating...or is the only difference being a fancy pants with the thesaurus?
I would sooner suspect that the person, not being a native English speaker, used some sort of translation program/dictionary that told them homologate was the correct word.

At least most ISU releases don't read like they ran them through Bablefish!


Mroz is going to be (was?) interviewed on NPRs All Things Considered today:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/10/27/141764511/our-heads-are-spinning-u-s-skater-nailed-first-quadruple-lutz

That's so cool!

Skittl1321
10-27-2011, 09:00 PM
I'm thinking this NPR follower does not know much about figure skating...or didn't follow the "but Evan doesn't do a quad!" at the Olympics.


Since none of his competitors can do this jump, I suppose that if he has it in his program, and performs it cleanly, he is assured of winning any competition. Assuming of course, that the rest of his program is well performed.

Ziggy
10-27-2011, 10:03 PM
NPR <3

Really great of them to give him the recognition. :)

caseyedwards
10-27-2011, 10:16 PM
Who was saying the quad is marker for mens figure skating and taking it out removes attention to the sport? It probably was Stojko but they were right! Good for Mroz being on NPR and bringing attention and maybe views on Youtube with links to other skating by others!

aftershocks
10-27-2011, 11:15 PM
Landing the quad lutz is definitely a great accomplishment, but it doesn't make anyone a great skater simply by landing it. Wonderful attention for the sport, but how about sustaining more public attention and interest through promoting all aspects of what makes skating great. If Brandon is able to maintain consistency on his quads, while further developing his presentation skills and finding choreo and music through which to express himself; if he skates a clean and beautifully realized program with or without quads, then that too will be cause for celebration.

I recall that when 3 American female figure skaters were 1,2, and 3 at Worlds in 1991, it didn't rate a Sports Illustrated cover, but when the famous whack on the knee happened in 1994, it rated an up-close SI cover and worldwide news. Landing quads is not all that figure skating is about. The jumps are not all that makes figure skating great.

Ziggy
10-27-2011, 11:56 PM
Mroz shouldn't make the US team even if he lands the 4lutz in both programs with his weak basics and totally empty programs. :P

aftershocks
10-28-2011, 12:14 AM
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/10/27/141764511/our-heads-are-spinning-u-s-skater-nailed-first-quadruple-lutz

Kudos to Brandon, and now for the next chapter in his figure skating life... Whether he ever makes a Worlds team again, landing the quad lutz is a great accomplishment, but an even greater accomplishment would be not only landing it consistently, but also finding his own identity and expression on the ice. Unless, fs is going to institute a separate jumping contest ... the jumps do not mean more than the whole. Great that quads excite wider public interest, but how about the sport trying to maintain wide public interest through promulgating all the other unique qualities the sport offers?

Ziggy
10-28-2011, 12:18 AM
Kudos to Brian, and now for the next chapter in his figure skating life...

His name is Brandon. :P

aftershocks
10-28-2011, 12:25 AM
Double post

aftershocks
10-28-2011, 12:48 AM
Thanks Ziggy, corrected that obvious error in my #116 post. Haste makes ... no excuses, my bad. :P

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."


Oh, no Brandon, you didn't! My head is spinning.

When asked by NPR's Melissa Block, "Some people say competitive figure skating is too much about jumps and not enough about the aesthetics. Do you think they have a point? Brandon's response:

"That is a very good question. There's a lot of controversy about that. I think that it takes two... skating is about the other stuff, and about maybe the art... I think for guys skating, it is a little more athletic than women's [skating]. People watch the female skaters, and they're very pretty on the ice and that's more for the art. But I think for men, at least for me, I love the jumps and being an athlete doing the tricks."

Good on the first part of his response, but it tailed off into stereotypical cliches. Female skaters are as athletic as male skaters. Hope Agnes Z and others take Brandon to task on that response. Would also have been nice if he'd mentioned that others, namely Mike Weiss did attempt a quad lutz in competition even tho' not landing it cleanly. (I see that it is mentioned on this broadcast's NPR website page that Michael Weiss is among those skaters who have previously attempted the quad lutz without success).

neptune
10-28-2011, 03:25 AM
Kudos to Brian...
His name is Brandon. :P

There's a difference? ;)