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Louise
10-31-2011, 08:40 PM
So what the heck are the 'record books'? There is a first quad lutz in competition, a first quad lutz in international competition, AND a first quad lutz in ISU-approved competition? The first is the first IMO. You do it first, you get the acclaim. And please don't tell me how much 'easier' it is doing it at Regionals versus Cup of Nice or whatever. You land it first in competition and there is absolute proof of it (video, now done always), you are the FIRST.

I don't want to end up seeing "Susie Salchow landed the first quad at Skate Mississagua" but Sandy Salchow was the first to do it in an ISU approved championship.

I say, let's get down to basics. Are you the first to land it in COMPETITION or aren't you? I have no problem with this, if video clearly shows it was clean. The rest is just semantics, which I've gathered people here love to quibble about, even just for the dictionary use of the word 'homologate'.

ETA: Does anyone remember a news article about an American, Chirssy something, who was determined to land her 4sal in competition? That was what she wanted, to land the first quad from a woman, maybe 10 years ago? I don't even think she got out of Regionals, but she kept attempting it to become the FIRST to do it in competition. So, does it make it more illustrious if you are from some -STAN country and will obviously qualify for Worlds and keep going for it, knowing you have nothing else in your skating? Is that fair? There is no pressure for someone who has tried umpteen times on the quad but still gets that chance to get it 'in the record books' because of some BS political game? You land it first in competition, or you don't. I'm disgusted with the qualified terms.

You land the first 4axel in a competition in the Club Championships of Moldovia and it's on tape and irrefutable, you get credit.

Civic
10-31-2011, 08:46 PM
Every time I see this thread title, my first thought is that it has something to do with blood diseases.

LilJen
10-31-2011, 10:37 PM
Who is videotaped landing the first quad in competition? Was it still Sabovcik? Or Boitano? I've never heard of any tapes claiming the first quad in competition before Kurt Browning? I'm intrigued. You know something I don't know.

I don't know about tapes, but Browning himself credits Sabovcik with landing the first quad and says it was kind of a fluke that Browning's was recognized and Jumpin' Joe's wasn't.

MacMadame
11-01-2011, 12:58 AM
Kimmie's triple axel was seriously underotated. If Brandon's quad had been as short as Kimmie's triple axel on rotation, there's no way the ISU would have ratified it in a million years.
What would it have been ratified as? It wasn't the first 3X landed by anyone, landed by a women or even landed by an American.


So what the heck are the 'record books'?
ISU records.


I don't want to end up seeing "Susie Salchow landed the first quad at Skate Mississagua" but Sandy Salchow was the first to do it in an ISU approved championship.

Then I think you are doomed to disappointment because until Brandon's 4Z, that's the way it's always worked.

bardtoob
11-01-2011, 04:31 AM
Then I think you are doomed to disappointment because until Brandon's 4Z, that's the way it's always worked.

:shuffle: . . . Maybe the ISU will now change the name of the Biellmann Spin to the Bratus Spin after Tamara Bratus, now known a Tamara Moskovina. I mean she was caught on recording and made it on Youtube performing the spin in 1965 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxIkSh3ywwI#t=3m50s), and surely at least one ISU official saw it since it was, well, at the European Championship Exhibition . . . Oh, wait. They all said they had seen it performed by Cecelia Colledge 30 years earlier.

aftershocks
11-01-2011, 05:06 AM
^^ So, was it perhaps the fact that Biellmann was such a great spinner and that she made this particular move look fresh, exciting and new that it was named after her, instead of after Colledge? Hmmmm, its unlikely that it was done 30 years before Colledge since it would have been scandalous, not to mention near impossible for women to do in long skirts, unless it was a man that did it the first time? Mabel Fairbanks has been credited with first performing the spin where you lift one leg in front of your body (popularized by Rudy Galindo), though it is named after neither.

bardtoob
11-01-2011, 05:16 AM
Mabel Fairbanks has been credited with first performing the spin where you lift one leg in front of your body (popularized by Rudy Galindo), though it is named after neither.

Cecelia Colledge scandalously went across town to develop her flexibility with a circus person, then invented and introduced the camel spin (a basic spin) and the layback spin (a variation of an upright spin and the iconic move of ladies' figure skating) but none of them are named after her . . . Actually, Cecelia contributed more elements to the CoP than Lutz, Salchow, Axel, or Rittenberger but who would know except people here.

PS I just love her.

Cecelia Colledge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDLVM-Hjzwc)

Vagabond
11-01-2011, 05:48 AM
Cecelia Colledge scandalously went across town to develop her flexibility with a circus person, then invented and introduced the camel spin (a basic spin) and the layback spin (a variation of an upright spin and the iconic move of ladies' figure skating) but none of them are named after her . . . Actually, Cecelia contributed more elements to the CoP than Lutz, Salchow, Axel, or Rittenberger but who would know except people here.

What about Bruce Mapes?! :drama:

He invented two of the six basic jumps, and does he have an element named after him? Non! :wuzrobbed

Ozzisk8tr
11-01-2011, 06:24 AM
What about Bruce Mapes?! :drama:

He invented two of the six basic jumps, and does he have an element named after him? Non! :wuzrobbed

How funny. On Roller the toe loop is called mapes.

Vagabond
11-01-2011, 06:36 AM
Roller, schmoller. Real skaters skate on ice! :HA!:

Ozzisk8tr
11-01-2011, 07:31 AM
Roller, schmoller. Real skaters skate on ice! :HA!:

Where is the f**k you emoticon when you need one.

Sasha'sSpins
11-01-2011, 07:43 AM
Well there's a word that I have never seen or heard used in English. Homologates / homologation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homologation) Perhaps it's from French or Italian and was just 'anglicized' through translation?

Congratulations to Brandon.

Neither had I! :D The only part of the word I had seen before was 'homo' as in sapien!:lol: I had to run to the old reliable online Merriam Webster's dictionary for this one! I've had to do that several times over the years thanks to our more enlightened Vocabulary Kings and Queens here on FSU! :glamor:

Back OT Congrats to Brandon!

antmanb
11-01-2011, 09:35 AM
What would it have been ratified as? It wasn't the first 3X landed by anyone, landed by a women or even landed by an American.


:confused: I don't think my post was unclear in any way:


Kimmie's triple axel was seriously underotated. If Brandon's quad had been as short as Kimmie's triple axel on rotation, there's no way the ISU would have ratified it in a million years.

It was ratified as the first comeptition quad lutz. Had the attempt been as under-rotated as Kimmie Meissner's nationals 3A, it would not have been ratified.

MacMadame
11-01-2011, 07:52 PM
Sorry, I was actually responding to someone else who was talking about what it would take to get Kimmie's 3X to be ratified.

star_gazer11
11-03-2011, 01:08 AM
Every time I see this thread title, my first thought is that it has something to do with blood diseases.

;) For some reason I keep thinking One Republic's song Apologize (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzq8c5pr-Ws&ob=av2n).

It's too late to homologize, it's too late...