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Yazmeen
10-21-2011, 01:45 PM
Lysacek is amongst the lucky ones, and his country offered him great chances.
I think now would be the time to give back, not the time to find yourself a better tax deal.
Expecially since it's hard for people with limited means to arrange the same, and very unfair (short sighted, poison for the whole society in the long run) to leave worst taxation deals on the shoulders of those less fortunate.

The last time I checked, Evan, like many skaters, supports charities, young skaters and has done plenty of "giving back." Good grief, are you suggesting he should move somewhere where he has to pay higher taxes as part of "giving back?" Then I assume you would expect other skaters doing well (Johnny Weir, Kristi Yamaguchi, Michelle Kwan, etc.) to do the same? How about the Kardashians? Politicians?

If you want to argue the tax code for ALL Americans, fine, do so, hell, I think the wealthy should pay more (and I'm in that 1%). But to claim Evan alone is not giving back because he decided to live in a state where he gets tax breaks is utterly ludicrous.

Good grief, what ELSE is Evan going to have to shoulder? I supposed we didn't get to Bin Laden sooner because he got in the way???? :rolleyes::eek::scream:

loulou
10-21-2011, 02:31 PM
The last time I checked, Evan, like many skaters, supports charities, young skaters and has done plenty of "giving back." Good grief, are you suggesting he should move somewhere where he has to pay higher taxes as part of "giving back?" Then I assume you would expect other skaters doing well (Johnny Weir, Kristi Yamaguchi, Michelle Kwan, etc.) to do the same? How about the Kardashians? Politicians?

If you want to argue the tax code for ALL Americans, fine, do so, hell, I think the wealthy should pay more (and I'm in that 1%). But to claim Evan alone is not giving back because he decided to live in a state where he gets tax breaks is utterly ludicrous.

Good grief, what ELSE is Evan going to have to shoulder? I supposed we didn't get to Bin Laden sooner because he got in the way???? :rolleyes::eek::scream:

The problem with charities is that it's not some right for people in need. Nor a country can count on it.
Charity is up to individual generosity: it can go, stop, lower whenever the giver pleases.
It's often mentioned that charities in the US are also a way of cutting taxes low. Is that correct?
Charity could also be to boost you own image and have an even greater come back from it, is that correct too?

Taxes are a completely different matter than charity: they (should) contribute to the country devolepment and civilization, as well as provede basic needs and opportunities for the less fortunate (not in a charity form, but in form of a duty and right).

I never claimed Evan is not giving back because he moved to Nevada, where he incidentally has a better tax deal.
I claimed he's not giving back because he he moved to Nevada specifically to cut himself a better tax deal (at least that's what tireout wrote).
Also, I surely never said Lysacek's alone in that.
On the contrary, I wrote it's very common to see that from people with means, and I didn't intend to leave other skaters out, if they behave in a similar way.

Still: it's not doing any good, expecially in times like these.
It's short sighted, and we're all seeing it's effects.
Even if laws allow it, people should at least reconsider their perception on the matter.

-- What else should Lysacek carry on his shoulder, catching Bin Laden: this is pushing it. I never intended to blame him for children starving, and I think/hope you know that.
But we could all start by fulfilling our obligations, without looking for shortcuts, even if laws are designed to have holes that allow them. Plus, calling things for what they are.

Pierre
10-21-2011, 02:33 PM
Well, now that you mention it, :sekret: :sekret: :sekret: say that Lysacek and Flatt acted as guards outside the bin Laden compound. Chan was sent out to act as a decoy and made a valiant effort to distract the approaching warriors by falling several times, but Seal Team Six was not fooled and judged the situation appropriately.

Cherub721
10-21-2011, 02:36 PM
This is getting so OT (as well as OTT). Someone argues that Evan is a smart kid with a good head on his shoulders because he chose to live in a state that has no income tax. Someone else argues that no, that actually makes him a selfish jerk.

Remember - we have no idea why he chose to live there. The tax reason is pure speculation. He doesn't deserve to be vilified for that. Even if he considered tax implications, that's totally his prerogative and there is no evidence that he doesn't pay what he is legally required to pay. No one should cast stones unless they have never taken advantage of any tax exemptions. I must say, though, that I have always been uncomfortable with the notion that "so and so is so smart because they chose to live somewhere with low taxes!" I must be pretty dumb then because I live in a state with income tax, high sales tax, and my county has some of the highest property taxes in the nation. :lol:

crystalice
10-21-2011, 03:24 PM
:blah:
This is a problem between Evan and USFSA. No other skater, fan, hater, etc has anything to do with it.

Come on... Evan is saint... :yikes:

Vagabond
10-21-2011, 03:56 PM
But we could all start by fulfilling our obligations, without looking for shortcuts, even if laws are designed to have holes that allow them. Plus, calling things for what they are.

He is fulfilling his obligations, possum. He's paying federal income tax and paying state taxes (not state income taxes, but property, sales, and other taxes, as described upthread).

Nothing obligates Evan Lysacek to live in California for the rest of his life or even for a particular tax year. In the United States (as in your country), we are free to move from one state to another, and those who do move have the same rights and privileges in the new state as those who have lived there all their lives. And as for Lysacek, he isn't originally from California, he has no immediate family there, and he is still a young man. He should be able to move wherever he damn well pleases without sniping from those who know next to nothing at all about American law, society, or culture. (Don't get upset; I'm just calling things for what they are. :P )

rudi
10-21-2011, 04:38 PM
In the days of big TV contracts, most skaters were paid six figure appearance fees.

With all due respect, those days are long gone.

MacMadame
10-21-2011, 08:04 PM
The fact it happens all the time and rules are designed to allow it, doesn't make it right, though.
There is nothing unethical or immoral about owning a house in Nevada. It's certainly not cheating the tax system to live there.

However, Lysacek is still living and training in SoCal most of the time and so must be spending money here either owning property or renting. So this picture of Lysacek having fled CA for the tax haven of Nevada is not even accurate. It does make me :lol: though.


Infact, it's one of the reasons the western economies ended belly up, and are now risking a double dip.
I assure you that the currrent economic situation in the US was not caused by Evan Lysacek moving to Nevada. :rofl:


I guess we have different books.
Yes and this apparently is yours:

http://www.amazon.com/One-Flew-Over-Cuckoos-Nest/dp/0451137094/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1319223479&sr=1-2

Zemgirl
10-21-2011, 08:38 PM
Legally obligation are pretty different from what's right, though: you wouldn't brag about being a cheater on your partner, even if the law allows it, would you?
- To be clear, that's generical: I'm not calling you cheater.

Lysacek is amongst the lucky ones, and his country offered him great chances.
I think now would be the time to give back, not the time to find yourself a better tax deal.
Expecially since it's hard for people with limited means to arrange the same, and very unfair (short sighted, poison for the whole society in the long run) to leave worst taxation deals on the shoulders of those less fortunate.
There's nothing immoral about moving to a state with no income tax. Lots of people do it. Cheating is immoral because there is a victim - the person being cheated on (unless it's an open relationship) and possibly other affected parties. Nobody is affected by Evan Lysacek moving to a state without a state income tax; California loses a resident who will no longer pay state taxes and use state services, while Nevada gains a resident who'll pay whatever it is he's required to pay. States structure their taxes differently, and people can live wherever they want, whether they are skaters, accountants, teachers or waitresses.

I live in Israel. We have VAT throughout the country - and it's higher than American sales taxes - except for the city of Eilat. If I decided I wanted to start a new life in Eilat so that I could cut my expenses and have a fun adventure, does this make me immoral? Am I dodging my responsibilities and cheating the state (most likely, in the form of some Yeshiva student)? Of course not. Governments decide how to tax people and generate revenue, and people can make decisions based on this. Or not. I'm certainly not going to move to Eilat.

Cheylana
10-21-2011, 08:46 PM
Well, now that you mention it, :sekret: :sekret: :sekret: say that Lysacek and Flatt acted as guards outside the bin Laden compound. Chan was sent out to act as a decoy and made a valiant effort to distract the approaching warriors by falling several times, but Seal Team Six was not fooled and judged the situation appropriately.
Very bad strategy. Chan's falling is so graceful that it doesn't distract anybody. On the other hand, Lysacek's flailing arms, together with Chan's starfish hands, would have gotten the job done.
;)

senorita
10-21-2011, 08:47 PM
I m from Greece, I paid taxes three times this year just because. It costs me fs competition trips:wuzrobbed
I prefer to leave the country again.

Edit : I have no idea why i wrote this, but it seemed relevant to the thread?

PeterG
10-22-2011, 04:01 AM
Edit : I have no idea why i wrote this, but it seemed relevant to the thread?

Relevance has no importance in this thread.

Coco
10-22-2011, 06:45 PM
The things you learn on this board!!

Is there any state in the US that doesn't have property taxes? That would be sweet! Of course, it would need to have fees for EVERYTHING (police, fire, roads, sewage, garbage pick up, utilities, schools, civil administration, etc.)

I'm sick of people complaining about taxes, and I wonder if they paid - instead - a series of fees for services, if this would cut down on the kvetching. Taxes feel bad because what you are getting for them isn't vivid for the tax payer.

In any event, I hate taxes on non-liquid assets, like property, because value and cash are two separate things.

Random post...back to Evan :)

When is scheduled to skate next?

Cheylana
10-22-2011, 09:33 PM
Random post...back to Evan :)

When is scheduled to skate next?
U.S. Nationals is his next stop...maybe.

Louise
10-22-2011, 10:35 PM
Nevada has other taxes. Sales tax, property tax, and taxes on tourists visiting hotels/resorts/casinos..

I almost feel it evens out anyway. I live in a no state income tax state, yet my property taxes were 9K. In Cali they'd be half of that. So no, I don't think anyone is getting out of paying their fair share of taxes. I do not begrudge Evan for at least TRYING to circumvent the tax machine, but no one gets out unscathed.

Let's focus on Evan the skater, and 'brand', whatever the hell he thinks it is. I thought he was good for his word, and expected him to compete this year, now we're going all cohen and don't ever expect him to legitimately compete. A shame.