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haribobo
10-19-2011, 06:50 PM
I'm confused as to why you included a LOL in this statement; what's LOLsy in it?

:D LOL. Don't you love when people throw LOL into everything just to make what they're saying seem less offensive? :P

SkateFan66
10-19-2011, 07:03 PM
Let me get things straight: Lysacek changed his address so he could get a better tax deal, and you are praising him.

The US gave Lysacek pretty good chances.
In times of troubles, like current ones, he's legally cutting his financial support to the country, leaving it to rely on the shoulders of those who cannot afford to buy a more tax friendly residence.
In my book, that's many things, but grown up isn't one of them.
And I definitely wouldn't go brag about it.

Living in a STATE that does not have a STATE income tax does not equate to "cutting financial support to the COUNTRY." There are several STATES that do not have a STATE income tax. Lysacek still has to pay FEDERAL income tax even if he lives in a state that does not have a STATE income tax.

SkateFan66
10-19-2011, 07:15 PM
That, and you do pay federal taxes in Nevada. Just not state income taxes. He's not abandoning his obligation to support the entire nation. Just the state of California. But, you know, he is by all means the first person in the history of this country to look for a tax break. Perhaps he should be burnt at the stake. I'm sure most of FSU would show up to light the matches. :rolleyes:

As for the rest of this thread, we have no idea what the dispute was between Evan and USFSA. None. It involved a contract. That's all we know. The rest is speculation and it is just as likely that USFSA was dealing in bad faith as it is that Evan was.

I agree, we have no idea what the contract dispute is. The USFSA indicated that it was related to financial matters. However, that could include funding, appearance fees, or the USFSA's approval of Lysacek's off the ice activities. The USFSA has to approve all show appearances, exhibitions, sponsors, etc., of eligible skaters that are competing on behalf of the USFSA.

Whatever the contract dispute is, I hope that it is resolved soon so that Lysacek can return to competition.

OliviaPug
10-19-2011, 08:31 PM
While we may not know the details of the contract disagreement, we do know there is one, and I find it refreshing that Evan stated as much.

Contract disagreements and disputes happen all the time. I don't find it all that shocking in this case since Evan is an OGM and may not be entirely sure of what direction he wants to go in. Maybe he thought if USFS made things more appealing to him contractually, he would go for Sochi. Maybe he even still thinks that could happen.

Figure skating is a business like anything else. But, for some reason, some fans think that figure skaters should be paupers and give their talents to the world for free.

I figure, if Evan is considering other options, he should see what makes the most sense financially. Most folks do that every day of their lives.

O-

VALuvsMKwan
10-19-2011, 08:38 PM
While we may not know the details of the contract disagreement, we do know there is one, and I find it refreshing that Evan stated as much.

Contract disagreements and disputes happen all the time. I don't find it all that shocking in this case since Evan is an OGM and may not be entirely sure of what direction he wants to go in. Maybe he thought if USFS made things more appealing to him contractually, he would go for Sochi. Maybe he even still thinks that could happen.

Figure skating is a business like anything else. But, for some reason, some fans think that figure skaters should be paupers and give their talents to the world for free.

I figure, if Evan is considering other options, he should see what makes the most sense financially. Most folks do that every day of their lives.

O-

Oh, come on, you know all North American skaters are capitalistic, soulless (and certainly voidless) pigs and ought to be thrown out of the sport. :blah: ;)

OliviaPug
10-19-2011, 08:42 PM
Oh, come on, you know all North American skaters are capitalistic, soulless (and certainly voidless) pigs and ought to be thrown out of the sport. :blah: ;)

Yeah, I know. I was just trying to be the devil's advocate ;)

MacMadame
10-19-2011, 08:50 PM
I'm glad I didn't place a bet on this. I took Evan at his word when he stated that he was going to return to eligible competition this season.:shuffle: Well, at least he's not injured.
There was and is no reason not to take Evan at his word. I doubt he said he was going to return knowing 100% he was not. I am absolutely sure he intended to return. Heck, he may even still return. The Olympic Cycle is not over yet, after all, or even the season.

But coming back is hard and most don't manage it. That's why whenever an athlete says they are going to do it, I take a wait-and-see attitude about it. It's not their word that I'm doubting, though. What I doubt is that they can overcome what most aren't able to.


Going back to another post, Evan left IMG for CAA? Interesting.
Yes, very interesting, particularly as this seems to be the result. IMG is pretty much in bed with USFS so I can see where a skater may worry that they won't get the best deal with them. But, OTOH, they have to know what USFS will and will not do better than other agencies and therefore won't draw lines in the sand when they shouldn't.



I wouldn't count Petrenko or Boitano in the spirit of OP's statement, since they both turned pro with no intention of returning to competition, until the Olympics schedule was changed, and they got a special exemption to return. Yagudin and Urmanov clearly intended to compete longer until injuries stopped them.
And Plushenko actually did compete and qualified for the next Olympics after his OGM. But, personally, I would count Boitano. I credit him with starting the whole "keep competing after winning OG" thing that is much more common today than it was in his time.

The thing is, the OP's statement is misleading. Skating has changed a lot since the days when US men were winning OGMs. It is much more common for a skater to never declare they are retiring these days and to continue competing off and on or at least declare they are coming back to eligible competition on a regular basis. But during the time that this change has been happening, US Men haven't been winning OGMs. Until Evan.

So, yes, he's the first US Mens OGM to come back since Boitano but he's also the first US Mens OGM since Boitano. As we've seen, all the other OGM in recent history have all come back at least a little bit if not making it to the next Olympic Games. Plus the prior OGM (Plushenko) did come back to the next Olympics. So that's who Evan is being compared to, not to Hayes Jenkins or other OGMs that most of the current crop of FS fans are barely aware of.

I get the impression that the OP has this idea that somehow Evan winning OG after so many US men before him haven't been able to has turned him into a star of the magnitude of Kwan. There may have been a time when that would have happened. But skating isn't like that any more and I see no evidence that Lysecek has Kwan-like star pull.

These days the reality is that the $$ just isn't there. ISU hasn't got the money it used to, USFS is struggling. Skaters hardly ever retire these days even after winning the big one. The last US OGM was Hughes and she didn't retire right away and now is a minor celebrity with a college degree who will most likely end up with a career outside of skating. The one before her was Lipinski and she did retire but she didn't have the America's Sweetheart career that she was expecting.

That is the world that Evan won his OGM in and I hope his team is smarter about it than the OP appears to be and isn't thinking that somehow Evan is going to be the savior of US figure skating with his OGM and his manliness.

Louise
10-19-2011, 09:23 PM
That is the world that Evan won his OGM in and I hope his team is smarter about it than the OP appears to be and isn't thinking that somehow Evan is going to be the savior of US figure skating with his OGM and his manliness.

I have always respected Evan Lysacek as a public persona. In interviews he was professional, he stuck to the party line, always mentioning his sponsors, didn't get into PR scrapes like his American rival, etc. I admire his work ethic. I watched him win Jr.Nats in 2000. He was 5th after the short, Weir was in 1st. Weir of course imploded and Evan won the LP, giving him the title. He looked all of 5' tall then, just a tiny little boy. The next year I see him at Nats in SENIORS looking pretty much the same, a little boy. Only nine years later he wins Olympic Gold. I'm impressed.

I was just never a fan of his skating, his iffy axel technique, his flailing 'Russian' arms. And I'm sorry I have never gotten a masculine vibe from him. One year commentators were laughing about Weir's 'flamboyant' costume, and then Lysacek comes on with sheer black illusion fabric exposing his nipples WITH ostrich feathers! Come on.

Whether he returns to competition or not, I hope he does what makes him happy. It seems he enjoys the grind of daily practices, so let's hope he continues in that vein and hopefully steps out on competitive ice again. I see an intensity with him that I really haven't seen since Tara Lipinski. Not the best skater out there, but dammit, the most trained and ready skater so let the cards fall where they may. Where Jeremy Abbott pounded him at Nats and was CLEARLY the best American skater, Evan shouldered that loss and worked harder for the Olympics. Almost Kwan-Lipinski again, except Abbott totally crumbled at Olys.

This was just a contractual dispute/issue. When he starts going flaky ala Cohen or Weir, then my respect for him will be diminished. But right now, eh. It's too early in the Oly cycle to make an issue of it, if he doesn't compete this year.

Cheylana
10-19-2011, 09:29 PM
I get the impression that the OP has this idea that somehow Evan winning OG after so many US men before him haven't been able to has turned him into a star of the magnitude of Kwan. There may have been a time when that would have happened. But skating isn't like that any more and I see no evidence that Lysecek has Kwan-like star pull.
I agree, and it's not a dis on Evan, who I do like. The Kwan-like star pull is a rarity even in a good market, let alone during a recession.

Louise
10-19-2011, 09:46 PM
I agree, and it's not a dis on Evan, who I do like. The Kwan-like star pull is a rarity even in a good market, let alone during a recession.

And men's figure skating isn't exactly going to bring in the $$$ and endorsements. It seems Americans like their "Queen of the Ice", and that does not include men. Kwan epitomized exactly what we wanted: pretty, beautiful skating, and didn't have a rap sheet. Male figure skaters always ranked lower in status. Again, there can only be one queen of the ice, n'est-ce pas? Boitano's agent practically placed him out of the market after 1988, where he commanded something crazy like $100,000 per night. Huh?

I went to a SOI like two years ago, and I was depressed. It was a down market, the skaters weren't all that, and the arena was barely filled up to the second section. The worrier in me was thinking "How is SOI going to make money on this, no one is here?" Don't want to think about it, or it will just depress me.

I only hope Evan and his handlers have an idea of what is realistically out there, and makes appropriate use of those financial resources. I don't think USFS has any more money to sign a Lipinski or Eldredge to million dollar contracts to perform. Skating has changed.

MacMadame
10-19-2011, 10:14 PM
If they settle before TEB, I don't know if he will be able to skate there or not.

His name has already been withdrawn and his replacement announced according to posts in the GP series thread.

nubka
10-19-2011, 10:26 PM
Figure skating is a business like anything else. But, for some reason, some fans think that figure skaters should be paupers and give their talents to the world for free.

Oh please... :rolleyes:

BTW, where does being an "amateur" fit into any of this? What is an amateur these days? The line seems to be somewhat fuzzy now-a-days. :confused:

VALuvsMKwan
10-20-2011, 01:20 AM
Oh please... :rolleyes:

BTW, where does being an "amateur" fit into any of this? What is an amateur these days? The line seems to be somewhat fuzzy now-a-days. :confused:

It's called "eligible", as in ISU and/or Olympic-eligible - and I imagine that top skaters can make a pretty good living staying "eligible" (and some much better than that, and more power to those that can).

judiz
10-20-2011, 01:26 AM
This was just a contractual dispute/issue. When he starts going flaky ala Cohen or Weir, then my respect for him will be diminished. But right now, eh. It's too early in the Oly cycle to make an issue of it, if he doesn't compete this year.



Not sure what the Cohen/Weir reference means, don't know about Cohen but Weir has made a pretty nice future for himself, he is the face of MAC cosmetics with his own cosmetic line coming out, he has a dress line out and is designing another for the holidays, he has a jewelry line coming out, his reality show will be back on this winter, he just recorded another single and he walked in several shows at New York fashion week plus he skated and will be skating in several more shows in the coming weeks.

Doubletoe
10-20-2011, 02:01 AM
I'm not much of a Lysacek fan, but I can't blame him for asking for as much money as possible in the year or two following his OGM, which is possibly the only window of opportunity for a figure skater to make a lot of money these days. If I were Evan (or his agent at CAA, who I'm sure has had an influence on him), I'd probably do the same thing. In another year or two, people will already be forgetting who his is and he'll have to live off of whatever he managed to earn now.