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PeterG
10-15-2011, 08:22 PM
So do the poll results mean that we all love a sport that we think (at least to some extent) is corrupt?

Sylvia
10-15-2011, 08:25 PM
I'd like to know the names of the 2 people who voted yes! 'Fess up now! :lol:

I see that Maofan7 later tried to change this thread title to "Has deliberate political bias in figure skating marking been eradicated?" (only moderators can change thread titles after the initial 5-minute editing window has passed)

Is there such a thing as "undeliberate (unintentional?) political bias"? ;)

Maofan7
10-15-2011, 09:55 PM
I'd like to know the names of the 2 people who voted yes! 'Fess up now! :lol:

I see that Maofan7 later tried to change this thread title to "Has deliberate political bias in figure skating marking been eradicated?" (only moderators can change thread titles after the initial 5-minute editing window has passed)

Is there such a thing as "undeliberate (unintentional?) political bias"? ;)

My thread. If I need to clarify my original intentions I will do (necessary as the thread was going off on a tangent). As for your question: Is there such a thing as "undeliberate (unintentional?) political bias"? - evidently you have never heard of concepts like "subconscious racism" and other forms of subconscious discrimination - I refer you to the attached - Article 1 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1380755/Who-trust-Study-reveals-unconscious-mind-racist-tendencies--matter-liberal-surface.html) and Article 2 (http://racismaintover.blogspot.com/2005/12/subconscious-racism.html). The underlying concept applies equally to subconscious sexism, subconscious disability discrimination, subconscious ageism - and yes, subconscious political bias. You admitted it yourself when you said that so long as human beings were involved in judging, there would be political bias. A lot of work has gone into cracking down on deliberate political bias/corruption. However, as the poll results show, its practically impossible to eliminate political bias altogether - especially at the subconscious level. :P

Sylvia
10-15-2011, 10:00 PM
So your modified title "Has deliberate political bias in figure skating marking been eradicated?" was unnecessary then. OK, got it, thankyouverymuch. :P

Maofan7
10-15-2011, 10:07 PM
If we all believed our own opinions were 100% right and had no interest in the opinions of others, then there wouldn't be any point in forums/polls. I thought it would be an interesting topic for discussion - no more than that. If you don't like it and if you are so adamant that its pointless, then why don't you ask one of the moderators to delete it and have done with it!

:rofl:

Sylvia
10-15-2011, 10:12 PM
I thought it would be an interesting topic for discussion - no more than that. If you don't like it and if you are so adamant that its pointless, then why don't you ask one of the moderators to delete it and have done with it!
I think you are misreading my posts. :) Also, you obviously haven't been here at FSU very long, so I forgive you. :D

Maofan7
10-15-2011, 10:19 PM
I think you are misreading my posts. :) Also, you obviously haven't been here at FSU very long, so I forgive you. :D

No problem - I forgive you too :cool:

Aussie Willy
10-15-2011, 11:27 PM
It is a lurve fest - we all have a group hug!!

gkelly
10-15-2011, 11:34 PM
Is there such a thing as "undeliberate (unintentional?) political bias"? ;)

Well, bias is often unintentional and even unconscious.

Is that kind of bias political?

I think we mostly understand what "bias" and "unintentional" (or "intentional") mean.

I'm not entirely sure what "politics" or "political bias" mean in this context. Maybe those terms could use some clarification.

And then there are also terms like cheating, corruption, collusion, deal-making...

I wouldn't go so far as to say that those things do not exist in figure skating. I'm sure they do. Whether it's more or less now than 10 or 30 years ago is harder to say.

Unconscious bias and conscious cheating are almost mutually exclusive, although they might tend in the same direction in the same individual.

That being the case, how can we ever know by looking at results that reveal a nationalistic tendency whether the cause is unconscious bias or conscious cheating by an individual?

Patterns of results that suggest collusion or deals between nations might be more obviously corrupt and more obviously political.

Is cheating always political? Is unconscious bias ever political? Are there two, three, or four different points along the conscious-unconscious and political-apolitical axes that this thread wants to look at?

AndyWarhol
10-16-2011, 04:02 AM
Actually after today I discovered bribery and corruption are alive in skating. Before I was about to judge a competition one of the skaters offered to give me chocolate if I gave her good marks.

State championships just got more interesting!

os168
10-16-2011, 08:44 AM
Impossible. Politics is in everything!!!

The only way to over come it is extraordinary level of excellence so there could be no scruples. Sad isn't it!

Pierre
10-16-2011, 01:48 PM
The often deliberate political judging and occasional scandalous acts that have existed throughout the sport's history, particularly on the elite, international level, have done a lot to harm its reputation. The fact that it is a judged sport does not mean that politics, corruption and pressure on judges should be accepted. Informed differences of opinion are not what we're talking about here. In recent years, more than one former ISU judge has confirmed that it's pretty much same old, same old, so no, it's not been eradicated from figure skating.

Beefcake
10-17-2011, 08:31 PM
My thread. If I need to clarify my original intentions I will do (necessary as the thread was going off on a tangent).
Etiquette emergency!

Yes, of course it is your right to "clarify original intentions", but this is done in a follow-up - read: new - post.

Going back and editing your original question is dishonest. It renders all of the discussion behind (which was based on your original POV) pointless ... and renders the thread illegitimate.

kukkura
10-17-2011, 10:08 PM
Actually, in theory there might be a technical solution to biased judging. Instead of the live skate, the judges could watch a computerized version of it where the skaters could not be recognized. The only problem is that they would need judges who haven't seen any individual programs in previous competitions because the music would be a dead giveaway. Maybe we should ditch individual choreographies and music choices? Maybe I'm going a bit too far?

Aussie Willy
10-17-2011, 10:43 PM
Actually, in theory there might be a technical solution to biased judging. Instead of the live skate, the judges could watch a computerized version of it where the skaters could not be recognized. The only problem is that they would need judges who haven't seen any individual programs in previous competitions because the music would be a dead giveaway. Maybe we should ditch individual choreographies and music choices? Maybe I'm going a bit too far?

The skaters could all skate in generic costumes and their heads could be pixilated. :D