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VIETgrlTerifa
10-08-2011, 05:55 PM
Who are you driving at? nonsense :eek:
Komova doesn't have weak apparatuses and holds the lead fairly.
She won 2 apparatuses as opposed to Wieber who won none

WTH are you talking about? This has nothing to do with Komova or Wieber. I'm talking about the fact that UB has been the ONE event that determines outcomes since this open-ended scoring system came to play. If it wasn't a problem, then most of the countries (including the top ones) wouldn't have made proposals to fix it. Nothing to do with Komova and Wieber, and BTW, I said earlier that I love Komova's gymnastics (even though I think her coaches are doing her a disservice with that horrible Eurotrash Swan Lake FX and her UB composition with a Giant 1/2, I still want Komova to win).

Dionysus
10-08-2011, 06:06 PM
ok pardon) misunderstanding

bek
10-08-2011, 06:07 PM
WTH are you talking about? This has nothing to do with Komova or Wieber. I'm talking about the fact that UB has been the ONE event that determines outcomes since this open-ended scoring system came to play. If it wasn't a problem, then most of the countries (including the top ones) wouldn't have made proposals to fix it. Nothing to do with Komova and Wieber, and BTW, I said earlier that I love Komova's gymnastics (even though I think her coaches are doing her a disservice with that horrible Eurotrash Swan Lake FX and her UB composition with a Giant 1/2, I still want Komova to win).

Mustafina last year didn't win bars JYY did in the AA. She scaled back actually Bridget didn't win bars either. Yes Nastia and Yilin were handily helped by their 7.7 bar routines in 2008 and it was a little much. But the facts are that Shawn was pretty much the weakest of all the top All Arounders besides (Pavs) on bars. While only two gymnasts in that AA had 7.7 routines, plenty of gymnasts in the AA had 6.9, 7.0 routines. Its on Shawn that Shawn couldn't get her bars D score higher, because plenty of gymnasts besides her were able to do so. In comparision to the other top all arounders and I'm not just talking about Yilin and Nastia, Shawn was weak on bars.

Both Shawn and Nastia has a weak event where the other had low difficulty but fairly excellent/good execution. Although I'd argue Nastia's vault was better executed than Shawn's bars. Its not like Shawn was that much better on Liukin on floor or beam. And really Komova's bars D score isn't that much higher than Wiebers, Douglas etc. Its her execution that is better.

I absolutely think bars is a bit much but lately its been vault not bars thats been the difference maker.

VIETgrlTerifa
10-08-2011, 06:22 PM
So I guess it's ok then that a great bars routine can score in the high 15-16 range whereas if a great FX routine with full difficulty breaks 15, it's considered a success?

Let's look at potential D scores here. Vault is pretty much maxed out at 6.5 more or less, but most women have scores ranging from 5.8-6.3.

Uneven Bars...we've seen D scores up to 7.5, a whole point higher than an Amanar. Of course not everyone is He Kexin, so we mostly see D scores in 6.2-6.8 range. But those are considered good/great routines. Again higher than Vault. Also, unlike the other apparatuses, if you're not good on bars, you can score really low while the other apparatuses tend to have more of a close range from a low score to a high score.

Beam

I see at this Worlds, the highest D score is a 6.8. I see D score ranges from 5.8-6.5 mostly. Not as high as bars.

Floor

I shouldn't have to explain floor because if a routine with full difficulty breaks 15.00 total, then it's considered excellent.

Most of the range is 5.6-6.4 way below UB, and not to mention all the deductions now for taking steps and whatnot...

Anyway, I hope the FIG passes some of those proposals because it'll make the apparatuses more even with one another.

BTW, I was one of the people who cheered when Nastia won, but even I acknowledge that the code played to Nastia's strengths and against Johnson's in AA.

bek
10-08-2011, 06:39 PM
So I guess it's ok then that a great bars routine can score in the high 15-16 range whereas if a great FX routine with full difficulty breaks 15, it's considered a success?

Let's look at potential D scores here. Vault is pretty much maxed out at 6.5 more or less, but most women have scores ranging from 5.8-6.3.

Uneven Bars...we've seen D scores up to 7.5, a whole point higher than an Amanar. Of course not everyone is He Kexin, so we mostly see D scores in 6.2-6.8 range. But those are considered good/great routines. Again higher than Vault. Also, unlike the other apparatuses, if you're not good on bars, you can score really low while the other apparatuses tend to have more of a close range from a low score to a high score.

Beam

I see at this Worlds, the highest D score is a 6.8. I see D score ranges from 5.8-6.5 mostly. Not as high as bars.

Floor

I shouldn't have to explain floor because if a routine with full difficulty breaks 15.00 total, then it's considered excellent.

Most of the range is 5.6-6.4 way below UB, and not to mention all the deductions now for taking steps and whatnot...

Anyway, I hope the FIG passes some of those proposals because it'll make the apparatuses more even with one another.

BTW, I was one of the people who cheered when Nastia won, but even I acknowledge that the code played to Nastia's strengths and against Johnson's in AA.

Last I checked there was a girl who did a double front vault that is worth i the 7s D score wise. So if you'll bring up He, than that girl should be brought up.

Yes bars has higher D scores than vault, but vault tends to have higher execution scores than bars. There's in a lot of ways less things to mess up on vault than there is on bars, and I actually think THAT's a problem. You can't just look at elements you have to look at scores.

As for floor it seems to me that a lot of the girls have similar top D scores. There maybe one/two tenth difference. I wonder if difficulty is fully rewarded but then again I don't think artistry on floor is rewarded enough either. Pavlova was frankly robbed in Beijing on floor...

I agree the system needs to change but you can't single out bars and not point out vault. Especially since we have so many girls injuring themselves on vault-not bars.

chipso1
10-08-2011, 06:56 PM
Also, can the US seriously have a choreography supervisor? I vote for Miss Val from UCLA. Their routines are outstanding.

Actually, I think Vega, Maroney and Wieber have really great FX routines this year. Raisman's is good too (compared to what she had previously, of course), and Gabby's works when she hits her passes.

Loves_Shizuka
10-08-2011, 07:08 PM
Nastia couldn't find another time to announce her comeback?! :rolleyes:

ANYWAY, I'm excited about the TF and the AA, even though they both seem to be two-horse races.

Beefcake
10-08-2011, 07:23 PM
Nastia couldn't find another time to announce her comeback?! :rolleyes:
:lol: Echoes of Tonya Harding around about USNs time for a few years. Well, in Nastia's favor at least hers is gymnastics related and not news that she was in truck wreck, is going to be a boxer, or recently saved someone's life.

bek
10-08-2011, 07:30 PM
Nastia couldn't find another time to announce her comeback?! :rolleyes:

ANYWAY, I'm excited about the TF and the AA, even though they both seem to be two-horse races.

I don't think TF is a two horse race. I think China actually may be the bigger challenge than Russia (although the Russians didn't do their Amanars and had floor problems). The Chinese are capable of scoring a LOT LOT higher on bars and many screamed that the ones who hit were actually underscored.

Hedwig
10-08-2011, 07:31 PM
I cannot seem to find the schedule. Now it is men for two days, right?
And when do women start again?
When is the AA?

Hedwig
10-08-2011, 07:40 PM
ah, finally found it:

TUE 11 OCT 19:00 Women's Teams Finals
WED 12 OCT 18:00 Men's Teams Finals
THU 13 OCT 18:00 Women's AllAround
Final
FRI 14 OCT 19:00 Men's AllAround
Final
SAT 15 OCT Apparatus Final Day 1

Hedwig
10-08-2011, 07:47 PM
I just saw that Chusso is 20(!!) years older than the youngest gymnast competing and 8 years older than the second oldest gymnast competing.
She is really an inspiration.

bek
10-08-2011, 08:20 PM
I just saw that Chusso is 20(!!) years older than the youngest gymnast competing and 8 years older than the second oldest gymnast competing.
She is really an inspiration.

It is amazing but it also suggests a weakness on vault too. I think vaults become pretty compulsory with most people only doing yurchenkos. I think some things need to be changed perhaps require gymnasts to do two vaults etc...Oksana being from a different time has an advantage there.

Loves_Shizuka
10-08-2011, 08:33 PM
^Shall we add that to the already exhaustive list of "Rules that blatantly need changing"? :lol:


I don't think TF is a two horse race. I think China actually may be the bigger challenge than Russia (although the Russians didn't do their Amanars and had floor problems). The Chinese are capable of scoring a LOT LOT higher on bars and many screamed that the ones who hit were actually underscored.

True. I've just noticed the UB scores and how shocking China was. They have the potential to really outscore their qualie score, but let's be honest - that's hardly a given. I hope they can though.

Beefcake
10-08-2011, 09:02 PM
Don't worry about China. ;) Even if they bumble through this championships, they'll be Gold contenders in London with some "new" gymnasts.

:sekret: "Potty training is accomplished, and documents will be in order by February 2012."