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IceAlisa
10-05-2011, 06:01 PM
Kissing and cartwheels are not evidence of guilt or even knowledge of the murder. What evidence was presented by the prosecution?

I am too lazy to do the digging myself and am hoping someone here has been following the trial. :shuffle:

BigB08822
10-05-2011, 06:03 PM
Kissing and cartwheels are not evidence of guilt or even knowledge of the murder. What evidence was presented by the prosecution?

NONE. He hardly even presented circumstantial evidence. The DNA originally submitted had to be seriously called into question which is what the 2nd case was about. They had labs do independent reviews of that DNA and then the jury, after hearing their reviews, decided they were INNOCENT. The Prosecutor seems to think a lot of people go around performing Satanic rituals. Maybe he watched one too many 70s horror movies?

skatingfan5
10-05-2011, 06:03 PM
The media played over and over again that shot of them kissing outside the apartment after Meredith's body had been found...as if this moment of two people comforting each other was somehow a smoking gun for their participation in rape and murder.You know, I had previously heard how "outrageously" the pair had been acting shortly after Meredith's body had been found but had not seen that video clip of them kissing until just this week. To me it seemed anything but "passionate" -- it appeared that they were offering emotional support and comforting each other. But I guess like nearly everything, it depends on the eye of the beholder.

Vash01
10-05-2011, 06:05 PM
To be fair, no one here has personally met Knox, so by that metric no one is in a position to say she is nice either even if a clip of a random neighbor says otherwise.

I haven't followed this and am not invested either way. From the very few clips of Knox that I've seen, she didn't come across as particularly mature or sensitive. Doesn't matter either way WRT guilt in the matter though.

People will draw conclusions about her personality based on what few glimpses they have. If we didn't do that, we wouldn't have much to discuss wrt skaters, celebrities, politicians, or high-profile trials. You sure didn't see people holding back their thoughts on Casey Anthony, and yet not one person here was personally acquainted with her. That's just how it is.

One last thing--in the US, a long interrogation does not constitute duress. If it did, there wouldn't be a single confession upheld in court. Just something to consider.

She was interrogated in Italy- (not US) a foreign country where she had no family, did not know the language, and she was just 20 years old! Even 30-40 year olds will find it very hard to handle, and you are talking about her not being mature?

I rarely read the Casey Anthony thread, and may not have posted at all (may have posted once; I don't remember). I saw the Amanda Knox coverage two years ago when she was sentenced to 26 years in prison (thank goodness they don't have death penalty there!), so I was more familiar with this, and it sounded like a compelling case to me.

IceAlisa
10-05-2011, 06:06 PM
The Prosecutor seems to think a lot of people go around performing Satanic rituals. Maybe he watched one too many 70s horror movies?

One wonders what the prosecutor in question likes to do in his free time...:angryfire The lady doth protest too much.

Nekatiivi
10-05-2011, 06:14 PM
What were the factors that led you to believe they were involved? I am still learning some details about the case, although I find the DNA evidence or lack thereof the key to the case.

Well the case all in all is definitely very confusing, but so things that led me to think they were not totally innocent:

1. Amanda changed her story many times months after the murder. She lied a lot and accused an innocent man. I don't think her every story can be plamed by her lacking Italian skills nor polices actions.

2. There were suspicions that she choose to accuse Lumumba because of his skincolor. If someone saw Guede leaving the appartment, they could report on seeing a black man. To why would Amanda cover for Guede? Maybe to cover her own drug use? Maybe she was using worse stuff than some weed.

3. Amanda and Raffaele turned off their phones at night around the time murder happened. Both turned their phones back on 5.30 am. Why?

4. Apperently Amanda was shoping bleach/other cleaning stuff next morning.

5. When police got Raffaele in Germany he had a knife with him. Knife was apperently from Meredith's and Amanda's apartment and small quantities of both girl's DNA were found. Why he had it? Knife could not be ruled out compleatly for all wounds in Meredith's body. Apperently Raffaele and Amanda were also seen carrying a knife on street outside the apartment on the murder night.

6. Situation when Amanda and Raffaele called policed was apperently fake. There were marks that some places of the murder scene was cleaned up, especially in bathroom. Amanda's DNA was found in three blood stains (in the bathroom).

There was lot of bizarre little things that I have no energy to write about now. I do not believe Amanda and Raffaele took part in killing Meredith but obviously there was something they tried to hide.

agalisgv
10-05-2011, 06:14 PM
She was interrogated in Italy- (not US) a foreign country where she had no family, did not know the language, and she was just 20 years old! In the US, if a 20 yo foreign national were interrogated for that length of time, it would not only not be considered duress, it wouldn't even be considered unusual. Just sayin'

Like I said, I'm not invested either way. I just don't find the claims in support of her anymore based in reality than claims against her :shrug:

IceAlisa
10-05-2011, 06:26 PM
Like I said, I'm not invested either way. I just don't find the claims in support of her anymore based in reality than claims against her :shrug:

I find it interesting that DNA evidence could be considered "a claim in support of her". That's my reason for thinking it's highly unlikely she was involved in the actual murder. Everything else is just talk.

MacMadame
10-05-2011, 06:29 PM
To be fair, no one here has personally met Knox, so by that metric no one is in a position to say she is nice either even if a clip of a random neighbor says otherwise.

It's not just the neighbor. A lot of people who knew her said she was nice. Some even said she was one of the nicest people they knew. The other word I see all the time being used is kind.

Of course, people always come forward in these cases to say they know the accused and that the accused just wouldn't do whatever it is that they were accused of even when the evidence is overwhelming that they did. But they don't use the same words. In particular, it's not common that they say the accused is kind. But I keep seeing that word used to describe Amanda by people who know/knew her.

IceAlisa
10-05-2011, 06:31 PM
Well the case all in all is definitely very confusing, but so things that led me to think they were not totally innocent:

1. Amanda changed her story many times months after the murder. She lied a lot and accused an innocent man. I don't think her every story can be plamed by her lacking Italian skills nor polices actions. Who knows why she changed her story? It can be suspicious, no doubt. But it's not evidence on which to build a murder case.


2. There were suspicions that she choose to accuse Lumumba because of his skincolor. If someone saw Guede leaving the appartment, they could report on seeing a black man. To why would Amanda cover for Guede? Maybe to cover her own drug use? Maybe she was using worse stuff than some weed. So she could be a racist. Does this constitute evidence that she is a murderer?


3. Amanda and Raffaele turned off their phones at night around the time murder happened. Both turned their phones back on 5.30 am. Why? Went to sleep? You'd have to know they phone habits to answer that.


4. Apperently Amanda was shoping bleach/other cleaning stuff next morning. That is the first thing I find suspicious.


5. When police got Raffaele in Germany he had a knife with him. Knife was apperently from Meredith's and Amanda's apartment and small quantities of both girl's DNA were found. Why he had it? Knife could not be ruled out compleatly for all wounds in Meredith's body. Apperently Raffaele and Amanda were also seen carrying a knife on street outside the apartment on the murder night. I read that this particular knife was ruled out as the murder weapon.


6. Situation when Amanda and Raffaele called policed was apperently fake. There were marks that some places of the murder scene was cleaned up, especially in bathroom. Amanda's DNA was found in three blood stains (in the bathroom).

There was lot of bizarre little things that I have no energy to write about now. I do not believe Amanda and Raffaele took part in killing Meredith but obviously there was something they tried to hide. But how could they have removed their DNA from the room where the murder took place and from the body while leaving Guede's intact? That's the important question.

It sounds like they may have known something about it but there is no evidence that they had in fact committed the murder.

agalisgv
10-05-2011, 06:35 PM
Of course, people always come forward in these cases to say they know the accused and that the accused just wouldn't do whatever it is that they were accused of even when the evidence is overwhelming that they did. Exactly--which is why such character snippets are rather unreliable.
But they don't use the same words. In particular, it's not common that they say the accused is kind. I've heard friends and neighbors talk about gang bangers and drug dealers as kind and nice. To me that's about as generic as it comes.

ymmv

I just don't see why people are invested in portraying her as nice or un-nice. To me the issue is criminal guilt--not her personality. And if people are going to argue about her personality, in the end it's all just gut feeling on the part of the one making the judgment--nothing more.

IceAlisa
10-05-2011, 06:36 PM
I just don't see why people are invested in portraying her as nice or un-nice. To me the issue is criminal guilt--not her personality.

Exactly. I don't really care what the tabloids say about her, whether she looks like an entitled American bitch or the nicest girl next door.

Nekatiivi
10-05-2011, 07:01 PM
Who knows why she changed her story? It can be suspicious, no doubt. But it's not evidence on which to build a murder case.

So she could be a racist. Does this constitute evidence that she is a murderer?

I read that this particular knife was ruled out as the murder weapon.

But how could they have removed their DNA from the room where the murder took place and from the body while leaving Guede's intact? That's the important question.

It sounds like they may have known something about it but there is no evidence that they had in fact committed the murder.

Who knows why she changed her story but I dosen't give a good impression. Why not stick to the truth if you have nothing to hide?

I wasn't trying to say she was a racist, I was trying to say she knew Guede killed Meredith so thats why she accused other black guy. What could be her motivation to cover for Guede? It is known that he was Amanda's drug dealer.

I don't think there was anything cleaned up in Meredith's room, just in the other parts of the appartment (apperently there were blood stains elsewhere too).

I don't think they took part in Meredith's murder but they knew something or/and were trying to cover something else, which could be drug use. I don't think either of them were tested for drugs by police?

For me, the knife thing is the most buzzling. Why to go around with a kitchen knife from appartment that is not yours?

kia_4EverOnIce
10-05-2011, 07:03 PM
Well the case all in all is definitely very confusing, but so things that led me to think they were not totally innocent

I add to this 7) they were seen near Knox and Kercher's flat around the hour of Meredith's death by an homeless.


It sounds like they may have known something about it but there is no evidence that they had in fact committed the murder.

That's my opinion too. But then I wonder why if they know something, they don't just speak out (fear of being accused of not having helped Kercher?).


I just don't see why people are invested in portraying her as nice or un-nice. To me the issue is criminal guilt--not her personality

Agree.

cruisin
10-05-2011, 07:11 PM
That is the first thing I find suspicious.
I read that this particular knife was ruled out as the murder weapon.

But how could they have removed their DNA from the room where the murder took place and from the body while leaving Guede's intact? That's the important question.

It sounds like they may have known something about it but there is no evidence that they had in fact committed the murder.

The bleach is probably the only thing I find to be odd. But, they could have been out when it happened, come home, found the body, realized that there might be evidence of drug use, and cleaned up certain areas before they called the police. That, obviously, is totally made up, but it could have been a plausible scenario where they seemed like they were hiding something. If that is what happened, they should have called the police immediately, but maybe they thought they could get in trouble for possession of something, and it was pretty obvious poor Meredith was gone, so there was no time urgency.



I just don't see why people are invested in portraying her as nice or un-nice. To me the issue is criminal guilt--not her personality. And if people are going to argue about her personality, in the end it's all just gut feeling on the part of the one making the judgment--nothing more.

I don't understand that either. But, there are some people who feel that by judging her by how she appears, they can see her as a criminal.