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Angelskates
10-05-2011, 06:44 AM
I hope that if this is somehow overturned that the U.S. refuses to extradite her.

According to this (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8355613/knox-transits-via-british-royal-vip-area):


But an appeal by the prosecution would probably have to be held in Italy in absentia as the US does not extradite its citizens abroad for trials.

BigB08822
10-05-2011, 07:25 AM
I didn't mean for the trial. I meant if the Prosecution wins the appeal and she is once again sentenced to prison then I hope the US refuses to extradite. I don't see this happening, though. Italy has been greatly embarrassed by this whole mess and I don't think the courts will be interested in making any more mistakes. Unless new and RELIABLE evidence suddenly presents itself then they should continue to find her innocent. To be honest, I have a feeling that the Prosecution will never file the appeal. Once things quiet down they will just leave it alone, probably with the urging of the Italian court system.

kia_4EverOnIce
10-05-2011, 11:00 AM
I can't tell, however, if the comment about the courts believing that someone besides Guede being involved refers to Amanda and Raffaele's original convcition or if the appeals court also stated that they believed Guede didn't act alone.

It's because Guede has been convicted for cooperating (sorry, I don't know proper word) to the murder, but not for the murder itself. That also explain why he was gave 30 yrs (then reduced to 15 because he chose to have a fast track trial, which has different procedures). And yes, I think he can appeal against it.


Why do people think Amanda and her boyfriend were co-conspirators along with Guede besides his word that they were, which resulted in his sentence being reduced? What motivation did Amanda have to kill Meredith? What was their relationship like?

a part from his word, I think it was Amanda&Raffaele words who made the police think they were somehow involved.
Amanda didn't have any motivation, but their relationship wasn't good either (they had many flatmates discussion, like money, noise, cleaning, etc...)


I meant if the Prosecution wins the appeal and she is once again sentenced to prison then I hope the US refuses to extradite.

I guess US will refuse to extradite, as they did with Ashby (:rolleyes: for the latter)



Unless new and RELIABLE evidence suddenly presents itself then they should continue to find her innocent.

I think the third appeal is most similar to the US's ones, that's to say, there's no more space for new evidences, but they will reconsider the two trials and their decisions. So, I guess that if ever there would be that third appeal (I too think they won't do it), most of the discussion will be whether the evidences were really corrupted or not.

loulou
10-05-2011, 12:13 PM
Guede was originally convicted to something like 30 years, which is apparently considered a life term in Italy. When he started blaming Knox and Solecito, his sentence was reduced by half. I would love to know if those 15 years can be reattached.

That's not correct.
Guede was sentenced to 30 years in first degree, and then his time was reduced to 15 in second degree mostly because he asked for a shortened trial.
A shortened trail must be accorded to anyone who asks for it.
The judge decides after the first hearing on existing proves. No further discussion or new proves allowed.
The defendant must answer all the questions he's asked, and has no right to remain in silent.

A shortened trial offers less of a way out to the defendant, but his final sentence is reduce by one third. That's the law.

Guede choose a shortened trial in second degree.
Why did he? We can only speculate.
But a good deal of it is certainly money and supporters.
Sollecito's family is able to afford one of the most well known lawyer in the country, and as many expertises as needed.
Knox was well supported by the US ambassy and Italian-USA associations.
Guede didn't have those goods. So a time discount probably seemed the best choice back then.



I do not understand the further appeal process where the prosecution will get an opportunity once these bonds have been published in a few months to take this to the Italian Supreme Court for them to choose either the first conviction or the second, the reversed appeal. It just doesn't make sense to me that this is allowed in any court of law. Enough is enough.

I'm not much into crimes, and don't know a whole lot about penal laws around the globe.
But italian trials (both civil and penal) mostly run through three degrees.
There are people benefitting from that. Mostly those who have interests in stalling things until the opponent folds. Like when you owe compensation money, and you stall until your opponent sets for much less than fair, or folds all together.
Those people are powerful enough to keep things from changing.
It's not just happening in this case, it's how things normally go. Expecially if at least one of the parties involved has money/power of some sort.


-- By the way: Knox was sentenced not guilty of murder (and anything else related to Mez's death), but she was sentenced to three years, guilty of defamation of Lumumba - although freed, as she already had served that time. Bringing him into the game, she offered story details that were later on used against her.

Gazpacho
10-05-2011, 01:49 PM
Guede choose a shortened trial in second degree.
Why did he? We can only speculate.
But a good deal of it is certainly money and supporters.
Sollecito's family is able to afford one of the most well known lawyer in the country, and as many expertises as needed.
Knox was well supported by the US ambassy and Italian-USA associations.
Guede didn't have those goods. So a time discount probably seemed the best choice back then.Um, you don't think it had something to do with the fact that his DNA was all over Meredith's room? In contrast, there was one tiny piece of DNA linking Raffaele to the crime scene, and that was a bra clasp that was improperly handled by police. Amanda lived in the same house, so of course her DNA would be in the bathroom, and I believe a tiny bit was found in Meredith's room, which makes total sense since they were roommates.

The prosecutor's scenario (Raffaele and Rudy held Meredith down while Amanda stabbed her) is ludicrous. Unless Amanda and Raffaele have Potter-esque invisible DNA or DNA that can magically turn into that of another person, it's simply impossible.

By the way: Knox was sentenced not guilty of murder (and anything else related to Mez's death), but she was sentenced to three years, guilty of defamation of Lumumba - although freed, as she already had served that time. Bringing him into the game, she offered story details that were later on used against her.As I've said before, Amanda strikes me as selfish and not so nice, and to knowingly implicate an innocent man is disgusting. The guilty verdict for defamation was spot on.


This is what I want to know. Why do people think Amanda and her boyfriend were co-conspirators along with Guede besides his word that they were, which resulted in his sentence being reduced? What motivation did Amanda have to kill Meredith? See my comments in this (http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=69683) thread.

IceAlisa
10-05-2011, 04:47 PM
Knox was well supported by the US ambassy and Italian-USA associations.
Guede didn't have those goods. So a time discount probably seemed the best choice back then. In the face of DNA evidence this does seem rather irrelevant.



By the way: Knox was sentenced not guilty of murder (and anything else related to Mez's death), but she was sentenced to three years, guilty of defamation of Lumumba - although freed, as she already had served that time. Bringing him into the game, she offered story details that were later on used against her.

As others have pointed out, there are indications that the initial confession and mention of Lumumba were obtained under duress. Of course, there are those among us who just "know" they'd never crack under any kind of pressure and never say something, anything to just make it stop. Perhaps Amanda is not as hardy and valiant. :rolleyes:

Vash01
10-05-2011, 04:56 PM
As I've said before, Amanda strikes me as selfish and not so nice, and to knowingly implicate an innocent man is disgusting. The guilty verdict for defamation was spot on.

See my comments in this (http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=69683) thread.

Again, you are letting your likes/dislikes get in the way of your judgment of a person. Did you know Amanda personally to decide that she was "selfish and not so nice"? Her neighbor who was interviewed on TV (and he knows her personally) said she is a very nice girl. About implicating an innocent man, you don't know what the police did to her. She had just arrived in italy 2 months earlier, did not know the language, she was 20 years old! She must have been so scared. She may have given a name, just to end her own torture at the hands of the police.

You don't know how you would have reacted in a similar situation because you have not been in a similar situation. Amanda paid for the lie she told the police, no matter the circumstances. She did her time and she will have to pay the money. That's justice for both sides. She does not need to be judged as 'nice or not, selfish or not'. We all are human. We all have our weaknesses (and strengths). When we are in extremely difficult situations, we may react in ways that we never thought we would.

I am just happy that Amanda and Rafaelle received justice, finally.

IceAlisa
10-05-2011, 05:12 PM
I am amazed at how many posters let themselves form judgment based on how she looks (selfish, entitled, etc.) :eek: Mob mentality.

Nekatiivi
10-05-2011, 05:23 PM
After reading the old FSU topic about the murder I am much less convinced that Amanda and her boyfriend are totally innocent. They were hiding something... My best quess would be that they saw or heard what was happening to Meredith but were unable to do anything about it due being on drugs.

cruisin
10-05-2011, 05:28 PM
I am amazed at how many posters let themselves form judgment based on how she looks (selfish, entitled, etc.) :eek: Mob mentality.

Maybe they'll give her a break now. She doesn't look selfish, entitled, etc, she looks broken. So, for those who want to judge her via her expressions (vague as that may be), is she still an American bitch?

FTR, I never thought she looked any more selfish or entitled than any other 20 year old college student. They all go through a rather obnoxious, I know everything stage, then they grow up. When my son came home from his semester in Florence, he thought he was just the coolest thing ever. Worldly and so, so sophisticated. I couldn't stand the way he was acting (:lol:). He's in law school now, reality check, he's back to himself.

IceAlisa
10-05-2011, 05:43 PM
After reading the old FSU topic about the murder I am much less convinced that Amanda and her boyfriend are totally innocent. They were hiding something... My best quess would be that they saw or heard what was happening to Meredith but were unable to do anything about it due being on drugs.

What were the factors that led you to believe they were involved? I am still learning some details about the case, although I find the DNA evidence or lack thereof the key to the case.

agalisgv
10-05-2011, 05:47 PM
Again, you are letting your likes/dislikes get in the way of your judgment of a person. Did you know Amanda personally to decide that she was "selfish and not so nice"? To be fair, no one here has personally met Knox, so by that metric no one is in a position to say she is nice either even if a clip of a random neighbor says otherwise.

I haven't followed this and am not invested either way. From the very few clips of Knox that I've seen, she didn't come across as particularly mature or sensitive. Doesn't matter either way WRT guilt in the matter though.

People will draw conclusions about her personality based on what few glimpses they have. If we didn't do that, we wouldn't have much to discuss wrt skaters, celebrities, politicians, or high-profile trials. You sure didn't see people holding back their thoughts on Casey Anthony, and yet not one person here was personally acquainted with her. That's just how it is.

One last thing--in the US, a long interrogation does not constitute duress. If it did, there wouldn't be a single confession upheld in court. Just something to consider.

IceAlisa
10-05-2011, 05:57 PM
To be fair, no one here has personally met Knox, so by that metric no one is in a position to say she is nice either even if a clip of a random neighbor says otherwise.

I haven't followed this and am not invested either way. From the very few clips of Knox that I've seen, she didn't come across as particularly mature or sensitive. Doesn't matter either way WRT guilt in the matter though.

People will draw conclusions about her personality based on what few glimpses they have. If we didn't do that, we wouldn't have much to discuss wrt skaters, celebrities, politicians, or high-profile trials. You sure didn't see people holding back their thoughts on Casey Anthony, and yet not one person here was personally acquainted with her. That's just how it is.
It's fine to say she looks a certain way (I haven't watched any clips of her so I don't know) but to make that leap from looks to guilt is quite another.


One last thing--in the US, a long interrogation does not constitute duress. If it did, there wouldn't be a single confession upheld in court. Just something to consider.
So if someone is interrogated for a week straight, it's not considered duress?

skatingfan5
10-05-2011, 05:58 PM
One last thing--in the US, a long interrogation does not constitute duress. If it did, there wouldn't be a single confession upheld in court. Just something to consider.Just a bit of an overstatement there, unless all U.S. confessions are obtained through long interrogations -- and I don't think that is the case. :slinkaway

duane
10-05-2011, 05:59 PM
About implicating an innocent man, you don't know what the police did to her. She had just arrived in italy 2 months earlier, did not know the language, she was 20 years old! She must have been so scared. She may have given a name, just to end her own torture at the hands of the police.
There are so many cases here in the states where, after hours and hours of "interrogation", people not only implicate innocent people, but themselves as well. The Central Park jogger and Memphis Three cases are examples.

As stated, who knows what went on during Knox's interrogation. I remember reading that after she had been interrogated for hours on end, she signed a statement that was written in italian. If true, she probably had no idea what she was actually signing.

I personally don't think Knox or Sollecito had any part in or had any knowledge of Meredith's rape and murder, nor do I think they intentionally or unintentionally tried to cover up anything. The media played over and over again that shot of them kissing outside the apartment after Meredith's body had been found...as if this moment of two people comforting each other was somehow a smoking gun for their participation in rape and murder.