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Gazpacho
10-04-2011, 07:59 PM
I think it is clear that some of the DNA evidence was not reliable. That does not mean Amanda and/or Raffaele was innocent. I'm inclined to believe they were not. The police did not think Guade acted alone so who else was there? But I think her rights were violated in the way they gathered & apparently manufactured evidence.There is zero evidence that Guede did not act alone. His DNA is all over the place. His bloody handprint is on the wall. He fled Italy and was caught in Germany carrying a knife that is consistent with Meredith's wounds.

As I've said before, there is evidence that Amanda and Raffaele helped cover up for him, but as far as the murder, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Guede did not act alone.

manleywoman
10-04-2011, 08:46 PM
There is zero evidence that Guede did not act alone. His DNA is all over the place. His bloody handprint is on the wall. He fled Italy and was caught in Germany carrying a knife that is consistent with Meredith's wounds.

As I've said before, there is evidence that Amanda and Raffaele helped cover up for him, but as far as the murder, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Guede did not act alone.
As I haven't been following as closely, how was this Guede guy involved with these college students anyway?

Rob
10-04-2011, 09:30 PM
Story on Guede:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1081457/Rudy-Guede-Portrait-Merediths-murderer-begins-30-year-sentence.html

Civic
10-04-2011, 10:37 PM
...But the thing that really annoys me, and this is probably where my personal biases come in, is the idea that not wanting innocent people to go jail, to demand that the prosecution prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt, and speak out when you feel they didn't, is somehow disrepectful to the victim. And Meredith was a victim. She clearly went through hell. Her family has gone through hell. No one deserves that. But to imply that support of Amanda and her Raffaele is the same as condoning the murder of a human being is offensive, and it's something that I deal with on a regular basis in my profession, especially when I work on the defense team of someone accused of rape or murder...
:respec: Convicting two innocent people didn't make Meredith Kerchner's murder any less horrific. It didn't maker her any less dead either.

laurenannie
10-04-2011, 11:38 PM
Louise Woodward. I was thinking the exact same thing myself.

Don't even get me started on the myth that is Shaken Baby Syndrome. The key prosecution witness in the Louise Woodward is no longer sure of the testimony he gave back then.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/the-child-cases/interviews/patrick-barnes.html

Word on the defense lawyer list-serves is that he now testifies free of charge for defendants accused based on the SBS myth (though is basically impossible to get for small-town lawyers like myself working on low coverage cases).

Just an example showing that no legal system is perfect.

(And yes, I am biased on this subject as well, as I'm currently working on a motion for a new trial for a defendant I believe was wrongly convicted as a result of the SBS science.)

overedge
10-05-2011, 12:27 AM
And speaking of lack of evidence :eek:

http://tabloid-watch.blogspot.com/2011/10/mailonline-makes-up-events-quotes-from.html

BigB08822
10-05-2011, 12:59 AM
And speaking of lack of evidence :eek:

http://tabloid-watch.blogspot.com/2011/10/mailonline-makes-up-events-quotes-from.html

That is despicable. I would never believe anything that publication ever printed again.

numbers123
10-05-2011, 01:07 AM
Don't even get me started on the myth that is Shaken Baby Syndrome.

Are you saying Shaken Baby Syndrome doesn't exist?

laurenannie
10-05-2011, 01:28 AM
Are you saying Shaken Baby Syndrome doesn't exist?

It depends. (Don't you love the lawyer answer?) Some babies certainly die of abuse and shaking a baby can cause injuries that lead to severe disability/death. When I wrote the "myth" of Shaken Baby Syndrome, I was talking about a few myths that proponents argue, most specifically that the "triad" of symptoms in SBS can only be caused by shaking a baby (untrue) and that there is no lucid interval between a baby receiving these injuries and the baby lapsing into death/a coma (also untrue). These two untruths bascially mean that when a non-responsive baby is brought into an ER and doctors note the triad, the last known caretaker is charged with child abuse. In reality the triad can be caused by a multitide of medical conditions and studies have shown lucid intervals of up to 72 hours between a baby receiving trauma and becoming non-responsive. Defense attorneys argue that this means that: 1) babies with the triad of symptoms are not conclusively shaken babies and 2) even if the baby was shaken anyone who was around the baby within the past 72 hours could have been the abuser.

Hopefully, this clarifies what I meant.

duane
10-05-2011, 02:25 AM
Meredith Kercher's family is saying that they are back to square one in their search for justice, and they support the prosecution's appeal of the overturned convictions.

This is what often bothers me about victims' family members--their blind support of the prosecution. Really, there is nothing to search. Look at the evidence. Look at the crime scene. Here we have this brutal murder committed--according to the prosecution--by Knox, Sollecito, and Guede. DNA matching Guede's was found both on and inside Kercher's body and on her shirt, bra and handbag...A bloody handprint found on a pillow under Kercher's back was Guede's. What, Amanda and Raffaele were able to remove all their DNA and prints from the murder scene, but strategically leave Guede's?

Meredith's family needs to focus their attention where it belongs...at Guede, and (if possible by Italian law) to have his sentence increased to the maximum.

Lacey
10-05-2011, 02:48 AM
Guede was originally convicted to something like 30 years, which is apparently considered a life term in Italy. When he started blaming Knox and Solecito, his sentence was reduced by half. I would love to know if those 15 years can be reattached.

I wish we could find a transcript of the ABC 20/20 show from this past Friday night. Commentator Elizabeth Vargas has been watching this story for at least two years, if not the entire four. She spoke convincingly that the Italian prosecutor with the satanic ritual theory for convicting Knox and Solecito has previously been proven to be corrupt, and she hinted strongly that his career is finished, done because he was so far off the mark here.

I do not understand the further appeal process where the prosecution will get an opportunity once these bonds have been published in a few months to take this to the Italian Supreme Court for them to choose either the first conviction or the second, the reversed appeal. It just doesn't make sense to me that this is allowed in any court of law. Enough is enough.

BigB08822
10-05-2011, 03:24 AM
I hope that if this is somehow overturned that the U.S. refuses to extradite her. That may cause a political shit storm but who cares. The evidence is not there.

laurenannie
10-05-2011, 03:29 AM
I read a really interesting article on MSNBC about the Kercher family reaction to the verdict:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44770068/ns/world_news-europe/t/meredith-kerchers-family-seeks-answers-amanda-knox-walks-free/

According to Meredith's brother, the courts agree that Guede did not act alone. However, they also state that they didn't want to put away any innocent person. I suppose we'll have to wait to see what the Court's written decision says in 90 days, but the Kerchers don't come off as blindly supporting the prosecution in this article. I can't tell, however, if the comment about the courts believing that someone besides Guede being involved refers to Amanda and Raffaele's original convcition or if the appeals court also stated that they believed Guede didn't act alone.

FSfan107
10-05-2011, 04:12 AM
There is zero evidence that Guede did not act alone. His DNA is all over the place. His bloody handprint is on the wall. He fled Italy and was caught in Germany carrying a knife that is consistent with Meredith's wounds.

As I've said before, there is evidence that Amanda and Raffaele helped cover up for him, but as far as the murder, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Guede did not act alone.


As I haven't been following as closely, how was this Guede guy involved with these college students anyway?

This is what I want to know. Why do people think Amanda and her boyfriend were co-conspirators along with Guede besides his word that they were, which resulted in his sentence being reduced? What motivation did Amanda have to kill Meredith? What was their relationship like? I don't see any evidence connecting Amanda to this brutal crime. The supposed bloody footprint that the prosecution presented as Amanda's doesn't even look to be hers after all. The footprints are all linked to Guede.

IceAlisa
10-05-2011, 04:14 AM
I read a really interesting article on MSNBC about the Kercher family reaction to the verdict:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44770068/ns/world_news-europe/t/meredith-kerchers-family-seeks-answers-amanda-knox-walks-free/

According to Meredith's brother, the courts agree that Guede did not act alone. However, they also state that they didn't want to put away any innocent person. I suppose we'll have to wait to see what the Court's written decision says in 90 days, but the Kerchers don't come off as blindly supporting the prosecution in this article. I can't tell, however, if the comment about the courts believing that someone besides Guede being involved refers to Amanda and Raffaele's original convcition or if the appeals court also stated that they believed Guede didn't act alone.
What evidence is there that Guede didn't act alone?