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allezfred
10-04-2011, 03:49 PM
This all reminds me a bit though of the British Nanny in the US who was on trial for murder about 10 or so years ago.

Louise Woodward. I was thinking the exact same thing myself.

equatorial
10-04-2011, 04:44 PM
This all reminds me a bit though of the British Nanny in the US who was on trial for murder about 10 or so years ago.

That's what Mary Poppins gets when she decides to move to greener pastures across the Atlantic :saint:

Rob
10-04-2011, 05:05 PM
Well, whatever you say about Italy, I have read a couple of articles praising Italy for giving defendants a full second bite at the Apple. If the US had such a system, it might have saved Troy Davis. All systems have flaws.

escaflowne9282
10-04-2011, 05:22 PM
I thought "Foxy" might have been a reference to her being cunning, but it can't be that either. :shuffle:
(

Supposedly, Foxy was a nickname given to her when she played soccer because of her speed and agility. At least, that's what the US media claimed.

jadingirl
10-04-2011, 05:41 PM
Huh? It was ok to hang the wrong man when life was dangerous but now that we have better technology we should do away with the death penalty? Whether you're for the death penalty or not, this doesn't make sense.

BTW, there must have been a reason why the Italian police interrogated AN & the boyfriend in the 1st place. Meredith had 3 roommates. Why did the police target only Amanda, who had only known Meredith for about a month? They had fingerprints & DNA from Guade (sp?), why did they think anyone else had anything to do with it? I think there's a lot we don't know. I don't know if murderers went free or if justice was served & no one here knows for sure either.

From what I have read the other roommates were out of town when the murder happened and immediately lawyered up and made themselves scarce when they found out about Meredith.

Vash01
10-04-2011, 05:48 PM
No one said anything about the British being uneducated. However, there is point of view, which comes into play. The murder victim was British, the Italian police wanted convictions, and Americans wanted to believe that a student from the US could not have done what she was accused of. However, shoddy police work and contaminated, mis-processed evidence, should not put someone in jail, for 25 years, if they are not guilty. No one will ever truly know what happened that night, but the evidence indicates that Amanda Knox and her ex-boyfriend did not murder or participate in the murder of Meredith Kercher. Nothing will bring Meredith back. It was/is a horrible tragedy - the horror she must have experienced and the horror her family must deal with is devastating, but imprisoning two people who did not do it, will not change that. All that does is make more victims.

Well said, particularly the last sentence.:respec:

Vash01
10-04-2011, 05:50 PM
This trial just further bolsters my opinion that the death penalty is wrong, .

On that point at least, we agree.

taf2002
10-04-2011, 06:39 PM
Well, whatever you say about Italy, I have read a couple of articles praising Italy for giving defendants a full second bite at the Apple. If the US had such a system, it might have saved Troy Davis. All systems have flaws.

I agree all systems have flaws but the US has numerous appeals available to death sentence prisoners.

I think it is clear that some of the DNA evidence was not reliable. That does not mean Amanda and/or Raffaele was innocent. I'm inclined to believe they were not. The police did not think Guade acted alone so who else was there? But I think her rights were violated in the way they gathered & apparently manufactured evidence.

jeffisjeff
10-04-2011, 06:44 PM
Why are we even discussing the death penalty in this thread? It is completely irrelevant to this case, right? I know the prosecutor brought it up, but the reason leaves me completely :confused: .

Vash01
10-04-2011, 07:04 PM
I agree all systems have flaws but the US has numerous appeals available to death sentence prisoners.

I think it is clear that some of the DNA evidence was not reliable. That does not mean Amanda and/or Raffaele was innocent. I'm inclined to believe they were not. The police did not think Guade acted alone so who else was there? But I think her rights were violated in the way they gathered & apparently manufactured evidence.

The judge & the jury determined, after reviewing the evidence, that Amanda and Raffael were innocent of the murder charge (not just "not enough evidence"). I think they had a lot more information than you did. So your 'bellief' or what the police 'think' has no value.

Thank goodness we have the courts, so people are not convicted based on someone's beliefs and random thoughts.
P.S.- From what I am reading/hearing, I don't find the Italian police so great that what they think/thought should have determined the outcome.

chantilly
10-04-2011, 07:04 PM
Well, whatever you say about Italy, I have read a couple of articles praising Italy for giving defendants a full second bite at the Apple. If the US had such a system, it might have saved Troy Davis. All systems have flaws.


Think that had more to do with the enormous global media spotlight shone on them then anything else quite frankly.

Their evidence was heinous and the convictions so so wrong. I am not saying it doesn't happen in the US. The recent release of those three men who were falsely accused of killing a young boy attests to that.

But the real issue here IMO should be the terrible misconduct of the case by the Italian police and justice system. Someone should be losing their jobs.

skatingfan5
10-04-2011, 07:04 PM
I think it is clear that some of the DNA evidence was not reliable. That does not mean Amanda and/or Raffaele was innocent. I'm inclined to believe they were not. The police did not think Guade acted alone so who else was there?Guede acting alone did not fit in with the prosecution's "satanic ritual killing/kinky group sex game gone awry" theories of the murder. They didn't seem much interested in pursuing an alternative theory of a surprised-in-the-act/burglary break-in/rape and murder, which wouldn't need to involve anyone besides Guede (which matched up with the DNA and finger/hand print evidence they found, with Guede's history of break-ins, and with Meredith's missing credit cards, $300, and cell phones).
But I think her rights were violated in the way they gathered & apparently manufactured evidence.On this we are in agreement.

milanessa
10-04-2011, 07:08 PM
But I think her rights were violated in the way they gathered & apparently manufactured evidence.

What evidence was manufactured? Manipulated and contaminated I can buy but I've not heard anything about it being manufactured.

Rob
10-04-2011, 07:09 PM
I agree all systems have flaws but the US has numerous appeals available to death sentence prisoners.

Of course, but a US appeal is not a retrial with new evidence or a rehearing of old evidence before a jury. If there was a legal mistake in the lower court proceeding, the appeals court might remand to the lower court for a new trial, but limitations can be attached so the proceeding might not amount to a full retrial.

On the jury point, I read that the Italian appeals jury includes 2 judges (one of whom is the presiding judge) and 6 laymen who must be high school graduates. At the lower court trial, the 6 laymen do not have to be high school graduates. The judges are supposed to guide the discussion, but not the decision. I wonder how that works out.

kia_4EverOnIce
10-04-2011, 07:20 PM
Why did the police target only Amanda, who had only known Meredith for about a month?

I think they were first interrogated as witnesses, then IIRC the police started to suspect of them because of different versions they gave.


Think that had more to do with the enormous global media spotlight shone on them then anything else quite frankly.

Actually, I think it's quite common in the Italian system to appeal against a sentence, have this second trial and it's also not so uncommon to see a verdict overturned. And it's not also so uncommon to go on with a third appeal (which has different rules btw) as it seems it'd be this case.


Of course, but a US appeal is not a retrial with new evidence or a rehearing of old evidence before a jury.

exactly, I think that if the appeal had been done the US way, they wouldn't have considered again the evidences (-> and found them not valid -> and changed verdict).