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skatingfan5
10-04-2011, 12:10 AM
Will Amanda get compensation for the jail time she served?I can't imagine so -- the prosecutors are still saying that they intend to appeal the case and as Rob mentioned above, the police have filed a defamation lawsuit against Amanda and her family.

Badams
10-04-2011, 12:11 AM
If I were her, I'd hightail it out of Italy and never look back.

kia_4EverOnIce
10-04-2011, 12:16 AM
I've always imagined that Knox recommended they look into Lumumba and the media completely contrived that into her accusing him of murder.

I think that's part of official document:

she does not remember if Meredith was already there or whether she joined them slightly later, adding, however, that despite her confused recollection because she had smoked hashish, Patrick went off with Meredith, about which she was vague, into the bedroom where they had sex and that she does not remember if Meredith was threatened first but said it was Patrick that killed her, saying that in that moment she did not know how to put into words that she heard Meredith scream out loudly and that, disturbed, she put her fingers in her ears, imagining what could have happened.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1568860/Meredith-Kercher-murder-Judges-report.html
so yes, there's also police's fault, of course they should have controlled more, but I don't think she just said "I think he could.." and police/media built up it all.


I think the people who hold this action against her are assuming her guilt and that does make it hard to swallow but let's assume her innocence for a moment (after all, she was just acquitted) and it suddenly doesn't seem so hard to understand.

I'm not saying she's guilty, I don't know. I don't just agree with the version "poor american girl alone with evil Italian justice", because you just have to look up other media than US's one and you'll find different views: on the other hand I'm currently reading a blog on NY Times and if that's the point of view of most US media, I understand you'll find very strange the trial and procedures.

Vash01
10-04-2011, 12:17 AM
:cheer2: justice was served for Knox. I hope it will be/is also served for Merideth. Will Amanda get compensation for the jail time she served?


If I were her, I would not even try to get compensation. I would avoid that country forever, and move on with my life.

BTW CNN reported that she has left the jail.

Vash01
10-04-2011, 12:22 AM
I think that's part of official document:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1568860/Meredith-Kercher-murder-Judges-report.html
so yes, there's also police's fault, of course they should have controlled more, but I don't think she just said "I think he could.." and police/media built up it all.



I'm not saying she's guilty, I don't know. I don't just agree with the version "poor american girl alone with evil Italian justice", because you just have to look up other media than US's one and you'll find different views: on the other hand I'm currently reading a blog on NY Times and if that's the point of view of most US media, I understand you'll find very strange the trial and procedures.

None of us knows what happened, but I believe in 'innocent until proven guilty'. If the Italian media crucified her, and she got the wrong verdict- ignoring the scientific evidence- my sympathy goes to her. It's not about whether or not she was a 'poor American girl being viewed in a certain way in the Italian/American media. It's about justice, and the courts overturned the verdict based on evidence.

Skittl1321
10-04-2011, 12:30 AM
:cheer2: justice was served for Knox. I hope it will be/is also served for Merideth. Will Amanda get compensation for the jail time she served?

I doubt she will, as I think most of it would just be to cover the defamation charge which was upheld.

kia_4EverOnIce
10-04-2011, 12:40 AM
None of us knows what happened, but I believe in 'innocent until proven guilty'. If the Italian media crucified her, and she got the wrong verdict- ignoring the scientific evidence- my sympathy goes to her. It's not about whether or not she was a 'poor American girl being viewed in a certain way in the Italian/American media. It's about justice, and the courts overturned the verdict based on evidence.

I agree with all your principles, but just let me say that first verdict was fair to the scientific evidence known at that moment - the DNA evidence was still considered valid then. It were further investigations, that demonstrated that this evidence was contamined and accordingly, now the verdict has been overturned. It's justice I agree on that.
And no, Italian (and UK I believe) media may have been against her, but they didn't exactly crucified her (it's just another trial case, as many others).

Perhaps, this article explains better than what I can, how I reacted not to the verdict itself, but to the presentation of the trial in US media (that is reflected in some of the comments in this thread): http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2096056,00.html

MacMadame
10-04-2011, 12:40 AM
but she never recanted her accusation towards Patrick Lubumba (uhm I hope I spelled that correctly).
Except there are reports that she did.


I'd hope I'd know better than to falsely accuse someone of murder.
While I don't think I would do that, I have read enough about interrogation methods to not be 100% sure. They can be very manipulative if they want to be and after a while with no sleep or food or anything else, many people crack and say whatever they are asked to say. It would be arrogant for me to believe that I would absolutely not crack no matter what.


Yeah, I had my passport stolen in Germany once and it took about 13 minutes to get a new one at the Consulate.
My mom had hers stolen in Dubai and it took 4 days. Plus neither of you had an expired passport which is a different thing.

I suspect the US Embassy will do whatever is in their power to expedite the process, but that doesn't mean it's going to take minutes.


Biases are right a lot of the time.
Biases are wrong a lot of the time too.


We all judge based on the expression on peoples faces and their body language and anybody who says they don't is lying.
We make judgements because you can't get through life without making judgements. But you have to be open to the idea that your judgements are wrong. Especially in the case of a media circus where many people have a stake in manipulating our perceptions.

milanessa
10-04-2011, 12:48 AM
My mom had hers stolen in Dubai and it took 4 days. Plus neither of you had an expired passport which is a different thing.

I suspect the US Embassy will do whatever is in their power to expedite the process, but that doesn't mean it's going to take minutes.




A passport stolen in the Middle East is a lot different than Germany or Italy. An expired passport sometimes takes longer because of the need to check what someone may have been up to during that gap in time. The Embassy in Rome doesn't need to check on that in this case. They have the authority to issue it on the spot.

Gazpacho
10-04-2011, 01:18 AM
Finally! Good verdict--not guilty of murder, guilty of defamation. My hunch is still that they were involved in the post-murder cleanup, but definitely not the murder itself.

Here (http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6968)'s the FSU thread on the original conviction in which I wrote a lot based on the original trial.

BigB08822
10-04-2011, 01:36 AM
Here (http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6968)'s the FSU thread on the original conviction in which I wrote a lot based on the original trial.

That links to a Miss America thread. :lol:

Angelskates
10-04-2011, 01:44 AM
That links to a Miss America thread. :lol:

:rofl:

Rob
10-04-2011, 01:50 AM
The news media is reporting she is flying home tomorrow.

According to the Seattle Post "The jury had two options to acquit: determining there wasn't enough evidence to uphold the conviction or that the pair simply didn't commit the crime. The jury determined the latter, clearing Knox and Sollecito completely." Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Italy-appeals-court-clears-Knox-of-murder-2199678.php#ixzz1ZlljS34k

laurenannie
10-04-2011, 02:26 AM
I have strong feelings on this case. First off, to disclose my own biases (because we all have them), I'm a criminal defense attorney in the States. And while I can get frustrated with the system here, I have learned to work in it, which probably gives me a bias towards thinking it's a good system. So while following the trial, and I admit I followed the appeal a lot closer than the trial, I was floored by some of the differences between the American and Italian system and I do have to wonder if Amanda would have been convicted in the American system. However, if she had been convicted in the American system, the appeals court would not have basically reconsidered all of the evidence, as it appears they did in this case. To give an example, a man was convicted of murder in my town in 2005. Finally in 2011 he won his appeal, but the appeals court just said that the Judge let in hearsay evidence he shouldn't have, so they ordered the District Court to conduct a new trial without that evidence. They didn't decide if the case without the impermissible evidence was strong enough to uphold the conviction, so he is still sitting in jail until the Court holds a new trial.

But to continue with that example, when the case came before the Court for a pre-trial conference, the Judge basically stated that the trial would have to be moved to another County because there had been so much post-conviction coverage and he wanted a jury that hadn't been tainted by that; he didn't want the jurors to be influenced by the fact that that the defendant had been convicted at one trial. I abolsutely cannot comprehend a trial that had so much publicity and a non-sequestered jury. And that's where my bias comes in. I cannot fathom a situation in which that could possibly be fair for the Defendant.

I also cannot fathom a system in which the police are not required to tape their interrogations. The opportunity for abuse in that situation is ridicously high, on both counts. The prosecutors in my district are always pestering the police to tape every encounter they have with a citizen because it not only bolsters the prosecution case, it protects the police from being accused of being abusive when they were not.

I wish I could say with certainty that I would not make false statements during an interrogation, but the police are trained to get confessions. They have honed interrogation techniques that get confessions. The courts have had to step in because these were so successful that they were producing false confessions. When you have been in a room for 14 hours and you denied food and water and you are being subjected to techniques honed over the years to produce confessions, there are real psychological effects for everybody: including well educated, professional, mature people. I haven't seen literature on it, but I would not be surprised in the least if the same circumstances which produce false confessions also produce false accusations, though the prosecution in this case have conducted themselves so poorly I'm not convinced Amanda did tell them this other man did it.

It was so unfathomable that she was even convicted to me, after all the room was covered in the DNA of Guede, the DNA on the bra clasp was so small that most labs wouldn't test it because the results would be inclusive; not to mention that the Italian police had been combing that crime scene with no protective measures in place contaminating everything there, the "murder weapon" which didn't match the wounds on the deceased's body...I was pleasantly shocked that the conviction was overturned. I really didn't think that the same system which convicted her on such shoddy "evidence" would correct that mistake.

But the thing that really annoys me, and this is probably where my personal biases come in, is the idea that not wanting innocent people to go jail, to demand that the prosecution prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt, and speak out when you feel they didn't, is somehow disrepectful to the victim. And Meredith was a victim. She clearly went through hell. Her family has gone through hell. No one deserves that. But to imply that support of Amanda and her Raffaele is the same as condoning the murder of a human being is offensive, and it's something that I deal with on a regular basis in my profession, especially when I work on the defense team of someone accused of rape or murder.

I don't buy the argument that either he or she "look" bad, or guilty, or entiteld or whatever. I have been wrong multiple time with my clients: they've come to my office protesting innocence and looking completely honest and respectable and I believe them, and then the evidence starts to pile up and I realize I was wrong. Or they come in with the guilty "look," they're angry, agressive, difficult to deal with, and treat everyone in the office like crap, and they protest their innocence and I don't believe them. Then the evidence starts to fall apart, or the evidence of their alibi starts to pile up and I realize I was wrong.

Basically in most crimes there are two people that know the truth: the perp and the victim. The rest of us are just trying to piece things together the best we can.

Gazpacho
10-04-2011, 02:31 AM
That links to a Miss America thread. :lol::lol: Whoops! This (http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=69683) should be the right thread.