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milanessa
10-02-2011, 06:35 PM
There were also usually a few parents around who weren't lax or absent, rather they were throwing the parties themselves and providing the alcohol. They considered it a rite of passage. Many of them were under the impression that serving alcohol to minors in their house is not illegal, that it would only be illegal if they did it in a business or charged the kids to come.

In some states that is true as long as a parent or guardian is present and gives permission.

PDilemma
10-02-2011, 06:41 PM
In some states that is true as long as a parent or guardian is present and gives permission.

When parents are having 50 kids over and buying kegs for them, what are the odds that all of those kids' parents came along and gave permission?

Last time I checked, the law here is that they may serve their own kids. Not other people's kids. But I went to a graduation party thrown by a local police officer for his kid where I counted 12 minors drinking in the presence of the host and a uniformed officer. So there is little hope for the law being enforced. The worst part of this is that as long as this officer has kids at that school, there will be a free pass for underage drinking for its students and the parents who buy for them. Meanwhile, the local paper often reports MIP arrests at local college parties and parties involving students of the other high school. It is a bad situation.

IceAlisa
10-02-2011, 06:46 PM
When binge drinking is involved, in adult or a teen, you have to wonder why they are self-medicating. That's what I consider binge drinking: the reality is unbearable in sober state so they drink/do drugs to make it more acceptable.

It's one thing to have an (illegal) beer at a party, it's another to binge drink.

I was told by another mom that the latest trend at parties, as young as 6th grade, is to go through the parents' medicine cabinet, take out all the pills, mix them up and take them randomly. :wall:

This made me want to buy a safe.

Recently there was a case in Santa Rosa where there was a sleepover involving 14 year old girls. At night several girls got violently sick so the hosting mom thought it was food poisoning. Tragically, in the morning the girl who was hosting the sleepover was found dead. The tox report is pending but it seems girls added something (alcohol?) to the soda bottle they were passing around. This terrifies me.
ETA:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/11/teen-sleepover-death-soda_n_894753.html

and http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20110825/articles/110829695

I am not surprised additional tests were ordered.

milanessa
10-02-2011, 06:47 PM
I was only responding to your original post. How the hell would I know if 50 parents showed up? My point is that drinking laws vary by state and in some of them a kid can drink if they are in a private establishment and their parents are there and give them permission. I'm not making a value judgement either way - just saying what the law is.

PDilemma
10-02-2011, 06:58 PM
When binge drinking is involved, in adult or a teen, you have to wonder why they are self-medicating. That's what I consider binge drinking: the reality is unbearable in sober state so they drink/do drugs to make it more acceptable.

It's one thing to have an (illegal) beer at a party, it's another to binge drink.



A teen having a drink illegally is not a huge deal. I agree. But I know in this area, binge drinking among teens is a huge problem particularly in the more rural parts of the state. And some parents are telling them it is something they should be doing. We had a speaker at school once to talk about alcohol poisoning...because you can drink yourself to death and teens have. Some parents complained to the administration that we were trying to take all the fun of being young away from them.

And I'm told that when a student was killed in a car accident last year, some parents got the affected class together to drown their sorrows in alcohol--effectively teaching them that binge drinking as self-medication is a solution. It is all very scary.

Info on alcohol poisoning:

http://www.samspadyfoundation.org/samstory.html

Prancer
10-02-2011, 07:16 PM
I'm probably a bit more conservative in this department than most here. I try to be realistic, but I also want to convey the importance of waiting. We do talk about the subject, but it seems like other kids are just progressing very rapidly in this department, so we're kinda swimming against the tide. Or at least that's how it feels.

I know that's how it feels (and I think it feels even more so to the kids), but if you look at the survey data--all of it--kids are, in general, waiting longer to have sex and being more careful when they do. The impression is that everyone is doing it, but if the data is to be believed, that's not so.

Which is not to say that teens having sex isn't common, it's just that it's not as common as people seem to think. And it certainly isn't common at 12 or at 14 or whatever ages people like to cite as "They're having sex at [fill in blank with outrageously early age]."

In fact, I have from time to time discussed the stats with my kids to demonstrate that just because it seems like everyone is talking about doing it doesn't mean they actually are.

Studies also indicate that parental approval is important to most kids, and that their behavior, while not controlled, is often curbed by parental beliefs and teachings.

jeffisjeff
10-02-2011, 07:54 PM
My son and his gf (of a year) are both 16. They both have cars. Both my husband and I work 40 hours during the week, so do her parents. They have zero supervision all summer, and every day after school until parents get home.

I am scared to death at the thought of being the parent of a 16 year old, but at this point (never having been the parent of a 16 year old) I would say that most 16 year olds ought to be given some unsupervised time. After all, many these kids are going to be living on their own (in one way or another) in 2 short years! Sure, parents can try to require that they are told what the kids are doing, who they are doing it with and where they are doing it. But that won't really stop drinking/sex, will it? Being independent and responsible and learning limits doesn't happen overnight when a kid turns 18 (or whatever age) - it needs to happen gradually.

I've always thought that the best approach to that after school unsupervised time is to hope that the kid can get involved in some kind of sport or club or activity or job, something they like to do and will want to do after school. But then again, that isn't really going to stop drinking/sex.

PDilemma
10-02-2011, 08:15 PM
I've always thought that the best approach to that after school unsupervised time is to hope that the kid can get involved in some kind of sport or club or activity or job, something they like to do and will want to do after school. But then again, that isn't really going to stop drinking/sex.

Playing sports seems to have a positive effect on girls in terms of delaying sex and lowering risky sexual behaviors. There have been several studies about the correlation. Here's a summary of one:

http://www.wcwonline.org/Archived-Projects/sports-as-protective-of-girls-high-risk-sexual-behavior

michiruwater
10-02-2011, 08:21 PM
Or they should join band :)

barbk
10-02-2011, 08:47 PM
I think that it is a good idea to make sure your kids know your beliefs on various subjects -- and why -- but a bad idea to assume that simply because you, or your church, or your school reinforces those beliefs that your kids will necessarily behave in conformance with that. That's the primary reason I'm not a fan of the abstinence-only sex education that is used in so many places. It is also why I shared a fair number of stories on binge drinking (and in a college town there are plenty of tragic stories on the subject) to emphasize the potentially life-altering consequences. And why I think it is a good idea to let your kid know that you will always come and get them if asked, and that it was always okay to use your "mean mom" as the excuse for why you couldn't do something you didn't want to do but didn't feel comfortable saying directly.

D actually used the "mean mom" thing a number of times to avoid sleepovers she didn't want to stay for and other situations.

PDilemma
10-02-2011, 08:54 PM
D actually used the "mean mom" thing a number of times to avoid sleepovers she didn't want to stay for and other situations.

We were able to use the "mean mom" excuse as teens. I vividly remember holding a phone in one hand more than once while I asked my mother if I could do something and shook my head "no". She always obliged and said no. I think a lot of parents are concerned with being cool parents and don't want to do that anymore. I had a student once who would come to me and ask me to tell her she couldn't do stuff because her mother set no boundaries and had no rules and she desperately wanted an adult to just give her the out of telling her no.

All of that said...I recently asked my mother to tell me I couldn't go to a dinner party and she refused. Apparently she thinks that she no longer has to be the mean mom now that we are both well past 35. So not helpful. :lol:

Aceon6
10-03-2011, 01:40 AM
Mean mom/dad is the greatest out on earth. Parents who don't give their kids permission to use it are missing a good opportunity.

Prancer
10-03-2011, 03:45 AM
I think that it is a good idea to make sure your kids know your beliefs on various subjects -- and why -- but a bad idea to assume that simply because you, or your church, or your school reinforces those beliefs that your kids will necessarily behave in conformance with that.

That wasn't what I was saying to do. What I said--and I can support it--is that most kids are curbed, if not controlled by their parents' beliefs.

I got those stats from the CDC report you linked.

agalisgv
10-03-2011, 03:48 AM
::makes note to repeatedly express disapproval of sex before age 30::

purple skates
10-03-2011, 03:57 AM
I've always thought that the best approach to that after school unsupervised time is to hope that the kid can get involved in some kind of sport or club or activity or job, something they like to do and will want to do after school. But then again, that isn't really going to stop drinking/sex.

I absolutely believe in this. I have seen too many boys in our neighborhood who were not involved in after school activities and who found other, less desireable things to do. My son has played hockey since he was five, travel hockey since he was nine. It grounds them, gives them time mangement skills, and most importantly, kept him too busy to get into too much trouble. Well worth every penny I spent.