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aftershocks
09-27-2011, 09:37 AM
I've seen their sp from this summer. Are there any vids posted of their sp/ lp at Nebelhorn?

What's the verdict so far? Seems they are being promoted for the top spot at Nationals since both have been past champions and their pairing is fully supported and deemed promising/ a success.

I am pulling more for Evora/ Ladwig, and I also hope to see Marley/ Brubaker continue to develop and become more competitive.

haribobo
09-27-2011, 12:05 PM
What's the verdict so far? Seems they are being promoted for the top spot at Nationals since both have been past champions and their pairing is fully supported and deemed promising/ a success.


They have achieved good results due to good training and solid jumping skills. Not because they are being promoted as past champions. However you like them personally or artistically, you cannot deny that they have their act together jump-wise, and their presentation while not the best is fine for this stage. I don't like their music choices this year but I am not going to be upset if they zoom to the top of US pairs because they obviously have worked very hard and don't need to spend years toiling away mid-pack at US Nationals just because they are new.

My favorite 3 US pairs are Evora/Ladwig, Castelli/Shnapir, and Donlan/Speroff, and I'd absolutely love to see them bring the jumps and win everything. But I have to be realistic that other outcomes are likely and I can't be mad at all the other teams who manage to skate better.

iris81
09-27-2011, 12:29 PM
Are there any vids posted of their sp/ lp at Nebelhorn?
Here's link to their LP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOSYBgAkmcc

DORISPULASKI
09-27-2011, 12:43 PM
I particularly dislike that pole dancing last lift.


She certainly is no Caitlin Yankowskas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=incIOswvkv0

Heck, she isn't even Bridget Namiotka.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FauZ4ix55ak

reese
09-27-2011, 01:00 PM
I particularly dislike that pole dancing last lift.

All the lifts are atrocious, especially the pole dancing one to finish. The program is awful, there's no choreography, and it feels like it lasts 15 minutes. SUCH a step backwards for John after his gorgeous, stylish programs with Yankowskas last year. :wall:

olympic
09-27-2011, 01:03 PM
I see the critics' points, although I'm trying to be positive. To me, it looked like they were attacking the LP and had speed [again, hard to judge speed]. Also, it looked like he had more extension than in the past

haribobo
09-27-2011, 01:14 PM
All the lifts are atrocious, especially the pole dancing one to finish. The program is awful, there's no choreography, and it feels like it lasts 15 minutes. SUCH a step backwards for John after his gorgeous, stylish programs with Yankowskas last year. :wall:

They need a real choreographer in Colorado Springs. This has been a problem since the beginning. Even Ave Maria wasn't that great of a program, but Caitlin was a star and she made it look nice. If only Dalilah could find a choreographer at least half as good as the Boston teams or Shanti...there has never been much originality in those CO programs, its really unfortunate.

reese
09-27-2011, 01:17 PM
They need a real choreographer in Colorado Springs. This has been a problem since the beginning. Even Ave Maria wasn't that great of a program, but Caitlin was a star and she made it look nice. If only Dalilah could find a choreographer at least half as good as the Boston teams or Shanti...

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Marina Zoueva choreograph this LP for Denney/Coughlin? If so, she clearly didn't put more than 15 minutes of work into it. I know the great Dalilah herself choreographed the horrid East of Eden short, but I seem to remember Denney/Coughlin going out to Detroit earlier this year to get this LP?

Marina did choreograph Ava Maria for Yankowskas/Coughlin.

ETA: Yes, in this (http://www.goldenskate.com/2011/08/denney-and-coughlin-plan-impressive-debut-season/) fluff article they mention Zoueva choreographing their LP for this season.

Sylvia
09-27-2011, 01:18 PM
Marina Zoueva choreographed "Ave Maria" last season and she choreographed D/C's FS (I think "Nessun Dorma" was selected for her, though). I think their "East of Eden" SP (despite the music cuts) is the better program for them this season. I hope we'll get to see a video of their Nebelhorn version since that's what won them the bronze medal in their international debut.

my little pony
09-27-2011, 02:26 PM
I particularly dislike that pole dancing last lift.




it's pretty awkward. i reminds me of something from the human centipede movies.

shan
09-27-2011, 02:28 PM
V/T do that lift too. Blech...

casken
09-27-2011, 02:35 PM
That lift would be good if her back more upright, and the leg on the catch foot was stretched and held higher.

Right now she's hunched over and straining to catch the foot. V&T's version is slightly better, but still with similar issues. I think you need to have Cohen like flexibility to make that type of lift look good.

olympic
09-27-2011, 04:59 PM
Question [more like pontificating] -

I don't understand why a pair like this, who are pretty solid on all the big tricks - big 3twist, nice-sized throw 3z and 3l, SBS triples and double axels, big lifts, etc. - wouldn't then be able to spend a lot of time working on the finer points of beautiful skating, such as toe point, leg extension, back position, learning about relation to the music, even appropriate facial expressions. Proper mastery of the first few I mentioned would improve their GOE on several elements and lead to a jump in their scores. It seems not to be a tall task like learning a jump.

And will it ever happen? I didn't see Caydee improving in these areas while with Jeremy. Nor did I see John improving with Caitlin.

Is it all innate, or can it be learned?

Sylvia
09-27-2011, 05:27 PM
And will it ever happen? I didn't see Caydee improving in these areas while with Jeremy. Nor did I see John improving with Caitlin.

Is it all innate, or can it be learned?
I've seen John make small but noticeable improvements in his line/extension during his time with Caitlin (her carriage/line/extension are so good that he HAD to work hard to improve his form from mediocre to just average ;)) -- many fans just didn't pay attention to them in their first 3 seasons because they weren't that consistent until their last season together.

I think Caydee and John are planning to work on "finer points of beautiful skating" but it will take time and much effort by both of them because neither are naturally graceful or musical skaters. I already can see Caydee making small but noticeable improvements in some of her positions so far (I agree that her lift positions still need a lot of work).

haribobo
09-27-2011, 05:27 PM
Well they've been together since, what, May? June? I can understand if they don't have the most riveting presentation at this point. I think they can surely improve in these areas with time and work, maybe with some dance and ballet classes. I don't think Caydee is ever gonna be a Gretchen Donlan or Marissa Castelli who IMO have better presentation than a lot of our top senior ladies. But can she improve her dance abilities and positioning in the lifts? Yes, I really don't see why not. (sorry if I'm parroting Sylvia, we were posting at the same time)