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skateboy
09-21-2011, 07:29 AM
I thought it might be fun to compare the best competitive performances of the best skaters, starting with ladies. Take a look and see what you think. Who do you think is truly the "best of the best?" (Of course, these are just my opinions of their best performances.) Can you imagine if all these performances were in one actual competition? A figure skating fan's dream come true! Anyway, enjoy and judge!

Katarina Witt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLiJlOMdylg

Midori Ito: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvgWI8QDrzQ

Tonya Harding: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buQXBXmjumU

Kristi Yamaguchi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJNs1esR0_Y

Nancy Kerrigan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7RvWbnaDZk

Tara Lipinski: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZhIs6OIJ-I

Michelle Kwan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ptj_tO7tIXg

Irina Slutskaya: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvBSI97Vuw8

Sasha Cohen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouNL5ux17c4

Yu-Na Kim: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yc35PYNEQMk

Mao Asada: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsCZCM8AKCU

judgejudy27
09-21-2011, 08:44 AM
Poor Witt who had perhaps her all time moment of shining glory that night, outskating Thomas, Kadavy, Trenary, and young Ito all at their best to regain her World title, would still be guaranteed to come dead last just based on jump content vs those others alone. Unless the competition were held place in the figures era.

If you are talking about a competition it really depends what format it would take place in. Under COP the winner would probably be one of Slutskaya or Kim. Under non figures 6.0 it would probably be Ito or Kwan. Under the format including compulsory figures who knows.

skateboy
09-21-2011, 08:55 AM
Just based on these programs, I watched them all and gave them my own scoring. This was SO hard! I aimed to give equality to both content and choreo/artistic. Anyway, here's what I came up with (and I was very surprised by my own results!):

1. Tonya
2. Sasha
3. Yu-Na
4. Tara
5. Kristi
6. Midori (this pains me--I love her--but was there any choreography?)
7. Michelle
8. Mao
9. Nancy
10. Katarina
11. Irina

If I were a judge, that's how I would have scored it. But this is not my order of "favorite skaters" at all! It should be fun to see what you come up with. These are ALL great performances.

doubleflutz
09-21-2011, 10:19 AM
1. Tonya
...
6. Midori (this pains me--I love her--but was there any choreography?)


:confused: You keep using that word! I do not think it means what you think it means!

That's not the best Midori LP anyway. Artistically, it's her Calgary Olys skate, but if you only include programs with 3A the 1989 is better than 1990.

falling_dance
09-21-2011, 10:53 AM
The only thing I knew to do was the rank the programs two different ways, re-list them from the lowest point total to the highest, and use the "second mark" as the tie-breaker where necessary...

Technical: Sheer difficulty weighed against my own uninformed idea of what sound technique is; also, the more kinds of triples there are in a program, the better. Speed, carriage, edging, ease of movement, difficult footwork and spins count for a great deal.

(1) Harding (2) Ito (3) Kim (4) Kwan (5) Slutskaya (6) Asada (7) Yamaguchi (8) Cohen (9) Lipinski (10) Kerrigan (11) Witt

Artistik: Basically, a program that is coherent and delivered with great commitment trumps one in which certain elements (or even the skater's carriage throughout the program) stand out as beautiful in a performance that otherwise seems merely like skating to four minutes' length of music. Not that that's really any help in showing where and explaining why decisions about some rankings were close. :P

(1) Kwan (2) Cohen (3) Asada (4) Witt (5) Kim (6) Lipinski (7) Yamaguchi (8) Harding (9) Kerrigan (10) Ito (11) Slutskaya

And so...

1. Michelle Kwan, 5
2. Kim Yu-Na, 8
3. Mao Asada, 9 (wins the artistik tie-break)
4. Tonya Harding, 9
5. Sasha Cohen, 10 (That it's threadbare RobinLake keeps :sasha1: off the imaginary podium. Even so, my kingdom for a no-commentary video of that breathtaking performance...)
6. Midori Ito, 12 (Oh, there's choreography in that program, all right. It just isn't the very best.)
7. Kristi Yamaguchi, 14
8. Katarina Witt, 15 (If Jutta Muller's choreo is a cowbell, Witt fully explores the space with it.)
9. Tara Lipinski, 15
10. Irina Slutskaya, 16
11. Nancy Kerrigan, 19

If skateboy had chosen the 1989 NHK Trophy LP for Ito, the 1999-2000 GPF LP2 or the 2002 Worlds LP for Slutskaya, and the 1997-8 GPF LP for Lipinski, this would've been much more difficult for me.

Vagabond
09-21-2011, 12:51 PM
Shizuka Arakawa should have been on this list.

briancoogaert
09-21-2011, 01:20 PM
Shizuka Arakawa should have been on this list.
And Lu Chen : Lu Chen 1996 Worlds LP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCRaoNfU0r8)

And Maria Butyrskaya : Maria Butyrskaya 1999 Worlds LP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7r3FhAnpW8)

sk9tingfan
09-21-2011, 03:07 PM
I thought it might be fun to compare the best competitive performances of the best skaters, starting with ladies. Take a look and see what you think. Who do you think is truly the "best of the best?" (Of course, these are just my opinions of their best performances.) Can you imagine if all these performances were in one actual competition? A figure skating fan's dream come true! Anyway, enjoy and judge!

Thanks for posting! While I love Kwan's Red Violin performance, my marginal favorite of all time for her would be her SOTBS at Worlds the following year.

Vash01
09-21-2011, 04:58 PM
Why are you judging 6.0 programs with COP criteria? The skaters did not prepare for those rules. They need to be judged by the rules of their times, not by 2011.

Triple Butz
09-21-2011, 08:47 PM
I thought it might be fun to compare the best competitive performances of the best skaters, starting with ladies. Take a look and see what you think. Who do you think is truly the "best of the best?" (Of course, these are just my opinions of their best performances.) Can you imagine if all these performances were in one actual competition? A figure skating fan's dream come true! Anyway, enjoy and judge!

Katarina Witt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLiJlOMdylg

Midori Ito: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvgWI8QDrzQ

Tonya Harding: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buQXBXmjumU

Kristi Yamaguchi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJNs1esR0_Y

Nancy Kerrigan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7RvWbnaDZk

Tara Lipinski: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZhIs6OIJ-I

Michelle Kwan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ptj_tO7tIXg

Irina Slutskaya: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvBSI97Vuw8

Sasha Cohen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouNL5ux17c4

Yu-Na Kim: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yc35PYNEQMk

Mao Asada: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsCZCM8AKCU

This is TOUGH.

1)Michelle Kwan (great technique, most mature presentation)
2)Tonya Harding (best jumps, great excitement and power)
3)Tara Lipinski (speed, infectious energy, difficulty in the 2nd half)
4)Midori Ito (Iconic jumps, wonderful personality, one small mistake)
5)Sasha Cohen (Terrific interpretation, spins, and positions)
6)Yuna Kim (Amazing jumps, but I find this LP ZZZzzz)
7)Kristi Yamaguchi (So many transitions and a clean skate)
8)Irina Slutskaya (Good but issues with the final steps, spin, and zayak rule)
9)Asada (She doesn't get the music, jumps not well-rounded)
10)Kerrigan (great night for her, but the difficulty doesn't stack up)
11)Witt (blah)

judgejudy27
09-21-2011, 08:50 PM
Why are you judging 6.0 programs with COP criteria? The skaters did not prepare for those rules. They need to be judged by the rules of their times, not by 2011.

The problem is some of those skaters like Kim and Asada did prepare their programs for COP so it would likewise be unfair to judge them by 6.0 standards. Others like Witt and sometimes Ito prepared their programs under the 3 event compulsory figures format. Not all the skaters were in the 6.0/no figures era.

Anyway if I chose how I think those performances would fare in a competition with each other, rather than which I like most I would say:

1. Yu Na
2. Midori Ito
3. Michelle Kwan
4. Irina Slutskaya
5. Tonya Harding
6. Kristi Yamaguchi
7. Mao Asada
8. Sasha Cohen
9. Tara Lipinski
10. Nancy Kerrigan
11. Katarina Witt

Triple Butz
09-21-2011, 10:35 PM
The problem is some of those skaters like Kim and Asada did prepare their programs for COP so it would likewise be unfair to judge them by 6.0 standards. Others like Witt and sometimes Ito prepared their programs under the 3 event compulsory figures format. Not all the skaters were in the 6.0/no figures era.

Anyway if I chose how I think those performances would fare in a competition with each other, rather than which I like most I would say:

1. Yu Na
2. Midori Ito
3. Michelle Kwan
4. Irina Slutskaya
5. Tonya Harding
6. Kristi Yamaguchi
7. Mao Asada
8. Sasha Cohen
9. Tara Lipinski
10. Nancy Kerrigan
11. Katarina Witt

Just curious...Irina broke the Zayak rule (3 triple loops) forgot a large portion of her step sequence, and her last combo spin was a mess so what puts her above so many of the others for you?

bartek
09-21-2011, 11:02 PM
Just curious...Irina broke the Zayak rule (3 triple loops) forgot a large portion of her step sequence, and her last combo spin was a mess so what puts her above so many of the others for you?

I know it wasn't a question for me but I would say extraordinary joy of skating and exuberance. What's more, huge jumps (only the great Midori and Queen Yu-Na compare with her in terms of height), the most difficult triple-triple and good spins but all these are less important.

judgejudy27
09-21-2011, 11:42 PM
Just curious...Irina broke the Zayak rule (3 triple loops) forgot a large portion of her step sequence, and her last combo spin was a mess so what puts her above so many of the others for you?

I dont think the judges care about the Zayak rule in one time offense cases unless it is under COP, and since most of these women skated under 6.0 I scored it under that (yes I think Kim would still win out under 6.0 btw). I have often heard commentators point out a triple will be discounted since there was an accident it wasnt put in combination or repeated a 3rd time, but I always found it was never reflected in the scores one iota. The rule just kept skaters in line, and nobody would go beyond the rule or more than the very rare occasion. Her spins are still better than the vast majority of the women on the list, in fact the only better spinner on the list is Cohen probably, although Ito was also very good in her younger years. Her triple-triple combination was the hardest any of the women did, and her jumps are more explosive and better than most of the women listed. The overall presentation was excellent because of the energy, command, and overall confidence she skated with IMO.

I am curious too btw why you think Tara would be over Kim. Is there anything Tara does better than an in the zone Kim even in that "best ever" performance, except doing a triple loop. Kim has MUCH better quality jumps, stronger non jump elements, triple-triples and combinations galore herself, as much or more speed, and better artistry.

I also dont think those were the best performances of a couple of those women. Ito skated better performances at the 89 Worlds and 89 NHK which would probably place even higher on peoples lists who dont have her 1st. I even preferred her performance at the 91 Trophee Lalique even with the singled triple loop, artistically the program was much better. Irina skated better performances at the 2000 GP final, 2001 Russian Nationals, 2004 Cup of Russia, and 2005 Cup of Russia, which I am pretty sure would rank higher than most are ranking her on their lists. Michelle it is so hard to choose a best ever performance. Her 2000 Worlds LP was my favorite of hers, but many would probably pick her 2001 Worlds LP or 98 Nationals LP instead.

museksk8r
09-22-2011, 12:01 AM
I thought it might be fun to compare the best competitive performances of the best skaters, starting with ladies. Take a look and see what you think. Who do you think is truly the "best of the best?" (Of course, these are just my opinions of their best performances.) Can you imagine if all these performances were in one actual competition? A figure skating fan's dream come true! Anyway, enjoy and judge!

Katarina Witt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLiJlOMdylg

Midori Ito: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvgWI8QDrzQ

Tonya Harding: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buQXBXmjumU

Kristi Yamaguchi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJNs1esR0_Y

Nancy Kerrigan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7RvWbnaDZk

Tara Lipinski: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZhIs6OIJ-I

Michelle Kwan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ptj_tO7tIXg

Irina Slutskaya: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvBSI97Vuw8

Sasha Cohen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouNL5ux17c4

Yu-Na Kim: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yc35PYNEQMk

Mao Asada: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsCZCM8AKCU

I would rate Rochette's 2009 Nationals Aranjuez over quite a few of these performances, certainly over Cohen, Kerrigan, and Witt.