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View Full Version : What should be the upper age limit in junior singles competitions?



Maofan7
09-18-2011, 06:35 AM
Very interesting debate going on here (http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=80194) about what the upper age limit should be junior singles competitions.

So what should the upper age limit be? Currently, the upper limit is that the skater cannot have turned 19 before July 1. Is this too high? Or should the current rules be retained?

Please note that this poll is confined to junior singles. Completely different rules apply in pairs and ice dance where the current rule is that male skaters and ice dancers cannot have turned 21.

My view is that junior singles should mostly be confined to skaters who are not old enough to enter senior competitions. Nevertheless, there are some persuasive arguments for allowing some older skaters in on developmental grounds. Nevertheless, I think the current upper limit should come down by at least a couple of years.

Bookslut
09-18-2011, 10:54 AM
Perhaps there should be a difference between men and women recognizing the difference unphysical development. Men tend to reach their peak in their early to mid twenties, women in their mlate teens.

Jot the Dot Dot
09-18-2011, 03:11 PM
For the women, when they've grown out of their 'Beibermania', they're a senior!

Proustable
09-19-2011, 01:38 AM
1. I believe there needs to be an overlap between the maximum age a junior can be and the minimum age a senior can be. Having an overlap recognizes that people develop differently. For example, I think Kim at sixteen was more mature than Murakami at sixteen or Flatt at eighteen.

2. I don't really watch junior skating. This probably the first season I'm playing close attention to the JGP. Frankly, watching junior skating rather feels like reading an elementary school book report. Criticizing it for lack of <insert literary/skating quality> is besides the point as it is developmental, not final. So take my opinion with a grain of salt.

3. The idea that younger juniors are at a disadvantage because older juniors are more mature is hogwash.

4. If the situation that triggered this debate (an eighteen year old as a junior) happened more often, perhaps I would feel otherwise.

mgobluegirl
09-19-2011, 03:19 AM
The only competition I may be in favor of changing age rules for is Junior Worlds. It's ridiculous that it becomes a consolation prize for the seniors who don't make the world team, and the junior skaters (who may have done very well on the JGP series that fall) are left at home. But leave the JGP as it is. It's a developmental event, and every skater develops at a different rate.

julieann
09-19-2011, 06:47 AM
I don't think they should by age at all, they should go by scores throughout the season. Teams like Sui and Han should be in seniors and some senior teams should be in juniors until they develop together regardless of age. Same with singles.

query5
09-19-2011, 07:23 PM
for me the singles ladies arent the problem.

it is the pairs--
for me the pairs shouldn't be older than 18-19.(both of them)

the U.S. especially has to old of pairs in juniors, so they are kinda of behind in senior ranks (internatoinally) .yes the pair are older when win medals , but it starts out they are older when both jump up. for me they are too old to start in senior pairs.
dance was kinda of the same way but kinda of got straighten out by most dance teams being 3-4 years apart. (the pairs are what anywhere from 2- 7, 10 years apart) way to old and apart. for me ideall 3-4 years apart.
the ladies 19 it is a bit old. 18 maybe.

ltnskater
09-19-2011, 08:57 PM
Perhaps there should be a difference between men and women recognizing the difference unphysical development. Men tend to reach their peak in their early to mid twenties, women in their mlate teens.

Yes. I believe for the men, actually raising the age limit to 21 (for singles), and keeping the age limit at 19 for ladies makes sense in our present scenario.

However really, it isn't so much the age that is concerning, it is their skating, because you could have someone aged 23, but still skate like a junior, and therefore should be competing in juniors! On the other hand, you could also have a someone who is 17, and not only skate as a senior skater, but quite possibly be the best skater in the world!

With this in mind, there should be no age limit at all, now how they are going to determine whether a skater should be skating in junior or senior, should be up to the skater and their coaches, that would make the most sense (with some regulation of course, so we don't have extreme cases).

If they feel they are ready to go senior, then go ahead (if they really aren't ready, then they will not do so well), and vice versa. There should be no such thing as older skaters are better, but not good enough to do well at the senior level, so they skate junior and keep the younger junior skaters down. No..., if the particular skater regardless of age is not a good enough skater to be in senior, then they should be junior, as simple as that. A simple tier system separated by level.

Some may complain that then everyone in junior will simply be skaters that can't make it in seniors, but end up on top in juniors, so what? At the end of the day, when we are talking competition wise, it is the senior level that really counts. The junior circuit should be, as mentioned before, for developing skaters to be ready to go into the senior circuit. Whether or not they win at the junior level should be insignificant, as we have seen many times, just because a skater does well on the junior level does not mean the same at the senior level, and vice versa.

Skittl1321
09-19-2011, 09:09 PM
The only competition I may be in favor of changing age rules for is Junior Worlds. It's ridiculous that it becomes a consolation prize for the seniors who don't make the world team, and the junior skaters (who may have done very well on the JGP series that fall) are left at home. But leave the JGP as it is. It's a developmental event, and every skater develops at a different rate.

I think once you have competed in an ISU Senior event, be it something as small as a senior B or as high as the Olympics, you should be ineligible to compete as a junior.

However, I have no problem with skaters who skate as seniors nationally to skate as juniors internationally. The words senior/junior may be the same, but they mean something different!

Vagabond
09-19-2011, 09:59 PM
This thread made me think of Maria Butyrskaya and Tatiana Malinina. There wasn't any JGP around when they were young enough, but if there had been, they would probably have been competing on it right up to the age limit.

Butyrskaya earned a bronze medal at Nebelhorn when she was 18. I don't think she had competed internationally before that, and I'm not even sure if she competed in elite domestic competitions (junior or senior) before then either.

Records page on her official website (http://www.mariabutyrskaya.ru/records_eng.html)
Her Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Butyrskaya)

Malinina was also a later bloomer.

Her Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatiana_Malinina)

I really don't see anything wrong with letting the next late-blooming future World, European, or Four Continents champion compete on the JGP when she is eighteen.