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milanessa
09-17-2011, 06:31 PM
There was one this summer in my city. The firebirds were so close to our houses(because the airport is at 5-10 minutes from here). Some friends didn't understand why I disagree with this kind of things, this is exactly the reason! A crash can happen anytime! I was afraid they crashed on a house or street and killing people!:eek:

Many accidents can happen under all sorts of conditions. Tragic, yes - completely preventable, no. Should we ban skiing because people die? Swimming? Hiking? Driving? Where does it end?

My thoughts are with those hurt and the families of those killed. :(

julieann
09-17-2011, 06:44 PM
^ ITA!

Allskate
09-17-2011, 07:18 PM
Many accidents can happen under all sorts of conditions. Tragic, yes - completely preventable, no. Should we ban skiing because people die? Swimming? Hiking? Driving? Where does it end?


Are you saying that we should never draw a line based on safety concerns? Swimming, hiking, and driving are not good comparisons. The Reno Air Races were controversial even before yesterday's tragedy. 19 people had been killed in previous races. More than one every three years. You don't see those statistics in driving, hiking, swimming, etc. If that many people were dying at a particular swimming competition, people would be seriously questioning it. Can you imagine if someone died at the World Figure Skating Championships that frequently? People would be questioning the safety of the events, especially if people who weren't even participating in the competition were being killed, injured, and endangered.

BigB08822
09-17-2011, 07:30 PM
I agree. The frequency of deaths at this particular event is alarming. As Allskate said, average 1 death every 3 years is horrible. That isn't an accident here or there. Now the spectators are being killed, not just those who know the risks and do it anyway. Something has to be done. I am not saying to cancel the entire event or all events like it, but move the spectators further back, perhaps?

milanessa
09-17-2011, 07:34 PM
Oops.

milanessa
09-17-2011, 07:35 PM
I think that the tragedy should be thoroughly investigated and hard questions asked. If there are safety issues at the Reno Air Race that the NTSB uncovers then they need to be addressed. I don't believe vintage air racing should be banned carte blanche which is what some seem to be suggesting.

skatemommy
09-17-2011, 07:38 PM
^ Exactly, Brian. This wasn't a freak accident. These type of aircraft aren't inspected by the FAA like airliners are. They aren't required to have regular maintenance by a licensed mechanic. A 74 year old airline pilot would have had mandatory retirement at age 65.

milanessa
09-17-2011, 07:58 PM
These type of aircraft aren't inspected by the FAA like airliners are. They aren't required to have regular maintenance by a licensed mechanic.

They certainly are required to have regular maintenance and inspections under FAA guidelines and must maintain an airworthiness certificate.

http://www.vintageaircraft.org/informational_articles/Best%20Practices%20Guide%20for%20Maintaining%20Agi ng%20General%20Aviation%20Airplanes.pdf

http://www.tc.faa.gov/its/cmd/visitors/data/AAR-430/aainsp.pdf

vesperholly
09-17-2011, 08:14 PM
Are you saying that we should never draw a line based on safety concerns? Swimming, hiking, and driving are not good comparisons. The Reno Air Races were controversial even before yesterday's tragedy. 19 people had been killed in previous races. More than one every three years. You don't see those statistics in driving, hiking, swimming, etc.

In 2007, there was an average of 10 drownings (http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/water-safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html) per day - non-boating or sport-related. There have been 56 drivers killed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_racing_drivers_who_died_in_racing_crashes) at the Indianapolis Speedway alone. Ban swimming pools? Car racing?

Until this incident, the only people ever killed in the air races were pilots - surely people who signed up knowing the risks of the race. That spectators were involved in this crash was either a freak accident or a telling of how unprotected they are. I was surprised to see people on lawn chairs so close to the runway.

Allskate
09-18-2011, 12:22 AM
In 2007, there was an average of 10 drownings (http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/water-safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html) per day - non-boating or sport-related. There have been 56 drivers killed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_racing_drivers_who_died_in_racing_crashes) at the Indianapolis Speedway alone. Ban swimming pools? Car racing?


Again, these numbers are not comparable. The Reno Air Races are held once a year, with an average of one death out of every three times the races are held. There are more total numbers of deaths in swimming and driving because there are so many more people swimming and more people driving. But, you can bet attitudes towards swimming would change if there was a drowning one out of every three times that someone was swimming. Similarly, if someone died in one out of three car races, there would be a lot more concern. In fact, according to your link, the number of driver deaths has decreased in recent years because they changed the safety rules after so many people were killed. The opposite seems to be happening with the Reno Air Races. There has been a rash of deaths in the last five years.

skatemommy
09-18-2011, 01:14 AM
Now 9 dead. RIP, God help the families.

nubka
09-18-2011, 01:56 AM
Are you saying that we should never draw a line based on safety concerns? Swimming, hiking, and driving are not good comparisons. The Reno Air Races were controversial even before yesterday's tragedy. 19 people had been killed in previous races. More than one every three years. You don't see those statistics in driving, hiking, swimming, etc. If that many people were dying at a particular swimming competition, people would be seriously questioning it. Can you imagine if someone died at the World Figure Skating Championships that frequently? People would be questioning the safety of the events, especially if people who weren't even participating in the competition were being killed, injured, and endangered.

ITA.

Allskate
09-18-2011, 06:18 AM
Another crash and death at a West Virginia Air show:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/09/17/west.virginia.plane.crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

So sad. :(

cruisin
09-18-2011, 02:02 PM
I have to ask the same question Kasey asked, why do they let these things go on. These are not air shows, they are (as Kasey pointed out) low flying races in vintage planes. Because they are flying so low, what are the chances of correcting for any kind of error or mechanical malfunction? I Googled this type of air show and was shocked to see how many crashes and deaths, over the years, have occurred at the Reno one, alone.

Don't know if this was already posted, but they are saying that there may have been a problem with the tail of the plane and that the pilot, managed to avoid hitting the grand stands.

Angelskates
09-18-2011, 02:11 PM
People are obviously willing to still go and watch.