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Skittl1321
12-03-2011, 03:42 AM
Don't you have to be a citizen to get a passport? She has one of those. I think you still have to be released, or maybe there is just a longer sit out period if you arent officially released?

kwanfan1818
12-03-2011, 03:45 AM
She is not yet eligible to go to World's because the USA has to "release" her. If they don't release her, then she won't be able to skate for the Phillipines internationally, and will instead go back to skating for the USA.


Melissa Bulanhagui is still based at the University of Delaware and can continue to represent her longtime club in U.S. club competitions while also representing the Philippines internationally starting next season (2012-13).

Is this because medaling at a senior B (bronze at Nebelhorn 2010) isn't among the criteria for which USFS can refuse to release a skater for up to four years, and she will not be released this season because USFS can hold her due to her win at JGP Merino in 2008? Or does medaling at Nebelhorn count, and USFS has announced that they will release her after two seasons?

ETA:

Don't you have to be a citizen to get a passport? She has one of those. I think you still have to be released, or maybe there is just a longer sit out period if you arent officially released?
Sorry, I was writing when you posted this and didn't see it.

Theoretically, if she were released as soon as she had a new passport, she still would have to wait until September 23-26 2012 -- I'm not sure the day Ladies finished their competition -- two years after she last represented the US at Nebelhorn 2010. Singles skaters have to wait out two years, which I had forgotten in my question above.

It means that she can't compete in a senior B most likely until after Nebelhorn 2012 unless it's held later than Nebelhorn 2010 in order to get a minimum score and attempt to get on the alternates list for GP by winning one.

Sylvia
12-03-2011, 01:41 PM
Theoretically, if she were released as soon as she had a new passport, she still would have to wait until September 23-26 2012 -- I'm not sure the day Ladies finished their competition -- two years after she last represented the US at Nebelhorn 2010. Singles skaters have to wait out two years, which I had forgotten in my question above.
No, it's 2 years for ISU Championships, 1 year for all other internationals.

This was posted earlier in the thread:

Melissa will be eligible to compete for Philippines on the fall of 2012. ... Melissa's release is not until May 2012.

kwanfan1818
12-03-2011, 04:01 PM
:duh::duh:
Thank you, Sylvia.

Willowway
12-03-2011, 06:04 PM
Earlier in this thread Michael Christian Martinez was mentioned. Tripped across this a few weeks ago - he seems to have good coaching at home and now Ilia too. He's only 13 so there's a long way to go but he certainly has promise. I'm looking forward to how he does at the Jr. O's.

http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/insideSports.htm?f=2011/november/16/sports7.isx&d=2011/november/16

Sylvia
12-03-2011, 06:09 PM
Earlier in this thread Michael Christian Martinez was mentioned. Tripped across this a few weeks ago - he seems to have good coaching at home and now Ilia too. He's only 13 so there's a long way to go but he certainly has promise. I'm looking forward to how he does at the Jr. O's.

http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/insideSports.htm?f=2011/november/16/sports7.isx&d=2011/november/16
Also posted in the Youth Olympics thread :) - Martinez turned 15 in November:
http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3379506&postcount=107

Willowway
12-03-2011, 07:57 PM
Thanks Sylvia. Somehow I got the impression that he was 13 - good to know that he is actually 15.

FSWer
12-04-2011, 12:09 AM
In her situation, it's not qualifying that is the problem. She has skated for the USA internationally before, and thus as Skittl noted above, the USFS has to "release" her to skate internationally for another country. Either that or she has to get Philippine citizenship, which I think would get around the "release" clause.

Cn anyone please what exactly that means? Can someone give anexample? BTW. does anyone know THE reason to WHY the rules say that a Federation has o release (whatever that means) a Skater to skate for another country,rather thn just the Skater simply being able to have the say to the country they WAN to skate for and having it done and over with?

Sylvia
12-04-2011, 12:17 AM
FSWer you ask some good questions and all I can say for now is that some skating rules don't always make sense and/or seem fair to the skaters or us fans and this may be one of them. :)

FSWer
12-04-2011, 12:46 AM
FSWer you ask some good questions and all I can say for now is that some skating rules don't always make sense and/or seem fair to the skaters or us fans and this may be one of them. :)

I'm glad you agree Sylvia. Does anyome know the actual real reason why the ISU. set such a rule?

kwanfan1818
12-04-2011, 01:28 AM
Federations feel that it is in their best interest to control their skaters, especially those skaters to whom they have provided money, expertise, and/or training, and to prevent their skaters competing against their own teammates.

The people who run the ISU are voted in by the Federations, and sometimes the ISU does what the Federations want.

MacMadame
12-04-2011, 07:10 PM
I can see USFS' point of view on this. They put a lot of money into developing skaters at the lower levels in an indirect way and then, once you get assigned to international competitions, USFS gives the skaters money directly.

For those skaters to get pretty good at skating, good enough to meet the minimum qualifications for ISU events, while receiving USFS money and then go off to a developing federation and let them reap the rewards of USFS's investment doesn't seem 100% fair either.

kwanfan1818
12-04-2011, 07:16 PM
If this were China, which trains, houses, feeds, and educates its skaters from a very young age, I could see your point; however, it doesn't seem very fair to me that USFS should reap the benefits of the tens of thousands of dollars at the lower levels and hundreds of thousands of dollars at the highest levels that the skaters, their parents, and if they're lucky, their sponsors have paid over the years for the relative pittance USFS provides.

MacMadame
12-04-2011, 08:26 PM
I think it has to be a balance, kwanfan. There is some tipping point where a richer federation needs to have gotten their money's worth so they don't get taken advantage of. I'm not defending the current rules as I'm not sure that 1-2 years is the correct tipping point. Or that making a skater sit out is the right answer either.

However, I think people discount how much USFS money helps at the lower levels because skaters aren't getting the money directly. But many are skating on club ice which they pay for at a discounted rate and they are taking USFS tests with USFS judges that were trained by USFS and learning to skate with USFS Learn to Skate programs. They may get grants or awards from USFS too. All that cost money and, if USFS wasn't subsidizing or paying for a lot of it, then skating would be even more expensive.

I think some people feel like skaters don't owe their federations *anything* because skating is so expensive and don't understand that federations are outlaying a lot of money and expertise and so they are owed something.

What they are owed is up for debate but I do think they are owed something.

Skittl1321
12-04-2011, 10:45 PM
If this were China, which trains, houses, feeds, and educates its skaters from a very young age, I could see your point; however, it doesn't seem very fair to me that USFS should reap the benefits of the tens of thousands of dollars at the lower levels and hundreds of thousands of dollars at the highest levels that the skaters, their parents, and if they're lucky, their sponsors have paid over the years for the relative pittance USFS provides.

American skaters (with a tie to another country, or willing to be a rent-a-skater for a fed who will take anyone) don't ever have to skate for USFS. They can skate club competitions when they are developing skaters, and then country hop right away when they become an elite skater (even a low level elite). Many skaters from other countries train in the United States.

Skaters only have to be released if they have represented the country internationally. If they never have, they can choose whichever country they wish (assuming they have the qualifications that country requires to represent them, and for the Olympics, citizenship.)

[Correct me if I am wrong- perhaps release is needed once you enter the qualifying structure? I thought it was only if you represent the country, which requires an international assignment.]