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cruisin
09-13-2011, 01:27 PM
I think loulou meant "soil" not "sole."

Even still, what does stepping on Italian soil have to do with Madonna feeling "royal". She is American of Italian ancestry. Her "royalness" is more about her phony Brittish accent than being Italian.

Satellitegirl
09-13-2011, 01:32 PM
I can't believe this thread has 11 pages lol. Wow, just wow.

allezfred
09-13-2011, 02:19 PM
Just as a matter of interest, how do Americans feel about British people who move to the US and pick up an American accent? Do you find it fake and phony too?

cruisin
09-13-2011, 02:32 PM
Just as a matter of interest, how do Americans feel about British people who move to the US and pick up an American accent? Do you find it fake and phony too?

I don't know any British people who have lost their accent. I know some who's accent has mellowed a bit. I know people who have moved to different parts of the US and picked up some colloquialisms and slight accent changes. But, usually that is after living in that "new" place for a long time. Madonna has not exclusively lived in England, and it wasn't for very long. She also seemed to pick up the British accent the moment she stepped foot on British soil. Accent changes that evolve don't seem phony, those that happen overnight do. And since Madonna seems to like reinventing herself and is rather pretentious in so many other ways....

WindSpirit
09-13-2011, 05:44 PM
:rofl:

Can't say Madonna doesn't have a sense of humor:
Madonna releases silent film about hydragenas (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qlXMA0v-WA&feature=player_embedded) I don't know. With the original incident I defended her because I thought people were overreacting. Now I think she is.

VALuvsMKwan
09-13-2011, 05:55 PM
I don't know any British people who have lost their accent. I know some who's accent has mellowed a bit. I know people who have moved to different parts of the US and picked up some colloquialisms and slight accent changes. But, usually that is after living in that "new" place for a long time. Madonna has not exclusively lived in England, and it wasn't for very long. She also seemed to pick up the British accent the moment she stepped foot on British soil. Accent changes that evolve don't seem phony, those that happen overnight do. And since Madonna seems to like reinventing herself and is rather pretentious in so many other ways....

Not unlike her Royal Hollywood Highness Gwynnie... :rolleyes:

my little pony
09-13-2011, 07:23 PM
Just as a matter of interest, how do Americans feel about British people who move to the US and pick up an American accent? Do you find it fake and phony too?

a gradual change no

an accent picked up in customs before they leave the airport, yes

loulou
09-13-2011, 10:51 PM
I think loulou meant "soil" not "sole".

That's correct, I'm sorry. I should have looked it up before posting.




Do you have any idea what loulou means? I honestly have no idea.

I didn't mean to be criptic. Again: sorry.

Italy has lost press freedom over the past ten years.
Its press freedom is only partly free now (meaning information aren't illegal, but they are indeed very difficult to get access to - most people don't).
Freedom House 2010 Report (http://www.freedomhouse.org/images/File/fop/2010/FOTP2010Global&RegionalTables.pdf)

Italy is also ranked #67 from least to most corrupted countries in the world. That's behind any western country, plus some from the former soviet block and also from Africa.
Transparency International 2010 Report (http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2010/results)

Italians also keep electing the same prime minister despite the fact that he's a lurid pig who belongs to jail, and doesn't know squat about the job. It would be too long to enumerate all his faults here. But it would be difficult to overlook them for any person coming from a western country, which Italy used to feel it was.

Italian tax evasion is the highest one in the whole Europe. It's considered a right by most, and shaming it is highly frowned upon, on both social and professional environments.

Italians are also amongst the least educated compared to those from western and asian countries.

And polls show they don't perceive the issues, they didn't even notice their press is no longer free/didn't address it as a major deal.

So yes, Madonna, or any Canadian, or Finnish, or Swiss, or German, or - insert here - could rightfully feel royal when stepping on italin soil these days.



I don't know any British people who have lost their accent. I know some who's accent has mellowed a bit. I know people who have moved to different parts of the US and picked up some colloquialisms and slight accent changes. But, usually that is after living in that "new" place for a long time. Madonna has not exclusively lived in England, and it wasn't for very long. She also seemed to pick up the British accent the moment she stepped foot on British soil. Accent changes that evolve don't seem phony, those that happen overnight do. And since Madonna seems to like reinventing herself and is rather pretentious in so many other ways....

If I had to guess, I'd say Madonna is performing; and that's her job after all.

But. I have to say I pick up accents incredibly fast. A week is all I need to become a new native. It's not really something I like, but it's hard to fight.

cruisin
09-14-2011, 12:43 AM
Not unlike her Royal Hollywood Highness Gwynnie... :rolleyes:

Absolutely!



Italy has lost press freedom over the past ten years....
...So yes, Madonna, or any Canadian, or Finnish, or Swiss, or German, or - insert here - could rightfully feel royal when stepping on italin soil these days.

I'm still puzzled by the comment. We were discussing Madonna's pretentious use of a British accent. What does feeling righteously superior in Italy mean?

Just curious, where are you from?

I am of Italian descent, not all Italians are corrupt or dishonest. I have been to Italy several times. The people there are warm and wonderful. I agree that Berlusconi is a creep, but that's not a reflection of the population in general, and certainly doesn't elevate Madonna to royalty.

MacMadame
09-14-2011, 05:01 AM
If she had a real British accent that had developed over time, I wouldn't mind. But it's a bad accent like you'd hear in a High School play. So that's why I think it's fake.

BittyBug
09-14-2011, 06:10 AM
I'm still puzzled by the comment. We were discussing Madonna's pretentious use of a British accent. What does feeling righteously superior in Italy mean?loulou's remark was slightly cryptic but quite witty. While she was at the Venice Film Festival, Madonna called hydrangeas loathsome in her fake-Brit "royal" accent. So loulou quipped that it must not be hard to feel royal on Italian soil (due to her perception of Italy being pretty much of a mess as a country).

Royal attitude = above it all, better than everyone else. loulou's take is that with Italy so messed up, it wouldn't be hard for an outsider to feel better than / above their state of affairs (i.e., "royal"), hence justifying Madonna's "royal" accent at the Venice Film Festival.

VIETgrlTerifa
09-14-2011, 06:27 AM
I really don't think Madonna's accent sounds that British or royal. Sure she sounds differently then during her more wild days in the 80s and early 90s, but she's been speaking in that matter-of-fact uppity manner since Evita.

allezfred
09-14-2011, 11:23 AM
I really don't think Madonna's accent sounds that British or royal.

Me neither. :shuffle:

loulou
09-14-2011, 12:16 PM
I'm still puzzled by the comment. We were discussing Madonna's pretentious use of a British accent. What does feeling righteously superior in Italy mean?

See BittyBug below.




I am of Italian descent, not all Italians are corrupt or dishonest. I have been to Italy several times. The people there are warm and wonderful. I agree that Berlusconi is a creep, but that's not a reflection of the population in general, and certainly doesn't elevate Madonna to royalty.

Berlusconi has been elected by italians more than once, despite they knew from the very beginning he wasn't a honest man. That he had and still has close friends and close collaborators on all levels that have been convicted for mafia and murders too. Those collaborators used to take care of his children, take care of his law affairs, take care of his businesses, his politics. Some of them lived in his house.
Doesn't that say anything about the population in general?

Berlusconi is not just a creep. He's much more than that. He's dirty, he's sick like dictators from all ages have been, he's highly contageous in a country alredy exposed to these sorts of illnesses.

His consensus is still pretty high, considering any other western country would have kicked his horrid butt by now.

That does not speak highly of italians.

Exceptions can be found (and my personal belief is that they pay for that), but international ratings (note: not me) say Italy has sank deeply in the most important aspects of a civil society.



loulou's remark was slightly cryptic but quite witty. While she was at the Venice Film Festival, Madonna called hydrangeas loathsome in her fake-Brit "royal" accent. So loulou quipped that it must not be hard to feel royal on Italian soil (due to her perception of Italy being pretty much of a mess as a country).

Royal attitude = above it all, better than everyone else. loulou's take is that with Italy so messed up, it wouldn't be hard for an outsider to feel better than / above their state of affairs (i.e., "royal"), hence justifying Madonna's "royal" accent at the Venice Film Festival.

-- (thanks for the compliment, btw)

That's what I meant.
I'm sorry if that was a bit OT (infact, in the beginning I only mentioned it quickly for that reason).


---

Cruisin: if the face stinks, don't be angry at those who hold the mirror.
The first step to get better is indeed to address problems.
Italians need a wake up call, and it's becoming increasingly difficult between the state of the press, the state of corruption, the state of the government, and the general low education.

antmanb
09-14-2011, 01:47 PM
I don't know any British people who have lost their accent. I know some who's accent has mellowed a bit. I know people who have moved to different parts of the US and picked up some colloquialisms and slight accent changes. But, usually that is after living in that "new" place for a long time. Madonna has not exclusively lived in England, and it wasn't for very long. She also seemed to pick up the British accent the moment she stepped foot on British soil. Accent changes that evolve don't seem phony, those that happen overnight do. And since Madonna seems to like reinventing herself and is rather pretentious in so many other ways....

I think it's a very personal thing to each person. My family have lived all over the world and all of us, with the exception of my mother, are very good chameloens who have picked up other languages and accents my naturally mimicking the people we are around. My sister and father are the most talented at this and my father has over the years gone from "queen's english" accent to a soft american accent because of working for an american company and around american people. The queen's english accent I had from about the age of 5 5 onwards was lost in a couple of quick months when i moved to the north of England.

My sister picked up a slight Irish twinge to her accent and Irish turns of phrase within a couple of weeks after she became friends with her flat mate at uni who was irish.

Not saying that Madonna is like this, but just to point out that some people pick up accents in a non-phoney way very quickly.


I really don't think Madonna's accent sounds that British or royal. Sure she sounds differently then during her more wild days in the 80s and early 90s, but she's been speaking in that matter-of-fact uppity manner since Evita.

The reason it does come accross as fake is because when she's on stage performing and shouting at the crowd, there is no doubt that her accent goes back to "normal" which is without any shadow of a doubt American. The hoity-toy accent seems to come out particularly in interviews and press conferences.

In other news - Josh Harnett's beyond apalling attempt at a Yorkshire accent is hilarious: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RGPc4Lpr-A