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AxelAnnie
09-09-2011, 09:15 AM
The one I really think has this issue is Vanessa Lam. It's a bummer, but I totally saw it last year at Skater's Care. She looked like a completely different person on screen.

Irina Slutskaya too. She looked kind of a truck on tv.....always loved her spark and skating....but in person shie is a little tiny thing whizzing around the ice.

used2skate
09-09-2011, 01:58 PM
Vanessa is such a great kid. I hope this year her personality can come thru. She is a great role model for normal kids going to school and being high acheivers!

UGG
09-09-2011, 04:04 PM
This is the way I see make up as far as figure skating goes...yes it is a sport but the skaters are also performing. The costumes, make up, and hair make the performances come to life and not to be mean but people who are somewhat plane jane like Rachel (and Sarah Hughes as another example) need a litte "oomph" in their appearence. They are cute girls but they just do not have a natural "sophisticated" look about them. (think Sasha or Michelle)

RD
09-09-2011, 04:35 PM
This is the way I see make up as far as figure skating goes...yes it is a sport but the skaters are also performing. The costumes, make up, and hair make the performances come to life and not to be mean but people who are somewhat plane jane like Rachel (and Sarah Hughes as another example) need a litte "oomph" in their appearence. They are cute girls but they just do not have a natural "sophisticated" look about them. (think Sasha or Michelle)

So is that their fault? (No.)

I should add, though, that looks are very subjective...that's why IMO it is risky to be playing around with your look (considering comments in this thread) when you could get the results you want MUCH faster by fixing your actual skating skills...

I happen to prefer long hair on Flatt (and Cohen, while I'm at it), but really, it's just semantics. I also happen to prefer some skaters looks-wise who aren't universally considered "good-looking" to some who are. So what? What Flatt really needs to do is find her consistency again. I think she is on the right track based on what she's said in her latest interviews...she just needs to stay healthy and keep up with the competition (it might be hard doing that while being a full-time student).

victoriaheidi
09-09-2011, 05:38 PM
Vanessa is such a great kid. I hope this year her personality can come thru. She is a great role model for normal kids going to school and being high acheivers!

I hope so, too! She is a great role model (I would even argue that she's a little bit better, role model-wise, than Rachael Flatt...and I'm basically a Flatt uber).

leafygreens
09-09-2011, 10:54 PM
Well, for what it's worth, I thought the Jenny Kirk hair and makeup in the Richard Callaghan years was pretty awful. The updos were crazy intricate and it always looked like she was going to senior prom and had spent all afternoon in the salon. A simple bun or ponytail (like the ones she wore in exhibitions) were much nicer, IMO. Sometimes less is more.

Jenny talked about the intricate hairdos in Manley Woman's podcast. She said it took a really long time and a lot of hairspray, and were very "heavy." They were definitely "old fashioned" hairdos but she always looked beautiful.

Iceman
09-10-2011, 09:07 AM
well, how long before----and maybe it already happened with Fratianne and Peggy--- will it be suggested that so and so get a nose job or the ears pinned back or breast augmentation......

Re Jenny---why would anyone think it advisable to carry around a heavy hairdo while skating? Michelle's Salome conversion was breath taking, but after that I don't think she went as far in matching costume and make-up to whatever music she was using, except, perhaps, Taj, which was again a far eastern motif.


Could some of what goes on here qualify as "bullying"?

It really is sad, indeed, pathetic imo, if Caroline really feels she must try to convince the world she has a thin face.

Spiralgraph
09-10-2011, 03:38 PM
Peggy Fleming got her cosmetic surgery AFTER winning the Olympic gold medal, so perhaps she was not influenced by judges' notions of beauty,

What I think was worse is that Janet Lynn didn't skate using her surname because of the possibility of prejudice against her ethnic heritage. At least Tara Lipinski didn't face that obstacle.

Judges should judge skating and leave their personal opinions out of it.

victoriaheidi
09-10-2011, 05:13 PM
Peggy Fleming got her cosmetic surgery AFTER winning the Olympic gold medal, so perhaps she was not influenced by judges' notions of beauty,

What I think was worse is that Janet Lynn didn't skate using her surname because of the possibility of prejudice against her ethnic heritage. At least Tara Lipinski didn't face that obstacle.

Judges should judge skating and leave their personal opinions out of it.

I think beauty is very subjective, so I definitely agree that the judges need to look for beauty in what they see. Rachael looked better before last season. That's just my view. Others think she looked better last season than ever before. Others still think that Rachael just won't ever get it together or that she's always been gorgeous or whatever...and everyone is simply expressing an opinion.

Coco
09-10-2011, 05:46 PM
I almost think she opens herself up to some of these criticisms with her posture and carriage. It almost says, "pick on me."

RD
09-10-2011, 05:55 PM
I almost think she opens herself up to some of these criticisms with her posture and carriage. It almost says, "pick on me."

I don't think any skater ever ASKS to be picked on... *shrugs*

PDilemma
09-10-2011, 05:56 PM
I think beauty is very subjective, so I definitely agree that the judges need to look for beauty in what they see. Rachael looked better before last season. That's just my view. Others think she looked better last season than ever before. Others still think that Rachael just won't ever get it together or that she's always been gorgeous or whatever...and everyone is simply expressing an opinion.

It isn't about physically being beautiful. It is about presenting yourself well. Rachael just hasn't done that. She needs What Not to Wear for figure skaters. That show doesn't focus on physically fixing faults. It focuses on picking lines and cuts that suit your body, colors that suit your complexion, and hair and make-up appropriate for your lifestyle, skin, facial shape, etc...Rachael could use a tutorial on all of those things. And What Not to Wear for Figure Skaters would also have to take into account how things appear from faraway in an arena and on television. Bright yellow dress--not great for the television, her complexion or her hair color, for example. That is not a fix that is a comment on her actual physical attributes nor does it require plastic surgery. She has a beautiful complexion; she's just not doing it any favors on the ice the majority of the time with her color choices for costumes or make-up. She seems to be capable of better choices in her personal life. Her prom picture from her junior year, I think, that appeared on Facebook was a homerun for make-up, hair, dress cut and color---everything. And looking at atrocities like Agnes's neon pink dress last year...it is not out of the realm of possibility that the problem was with Tom Z's team, rather than Rachael.

Hopefully, aside from the hair cut, we'll see better choices with her new team.

victoriaheidi
09-10-2011, 06:01 PM
It isn't about physically being beautiful. It is about presenting yourself well. Rachael just hasn't done that. She needs What Not to Wear for figure skaters. That show doesn't focus on physically fixing faults. It focuses on picking lines and cuts that suit your body, colors that suit your complexion, and hair and make-up appropriate for your lifestyle, skin, facial shape, etc...Rachael could use a tutorial on all of those things. And What Not to Wear for Figure Skaters would also have to take into account how things appear from faraway in an arena and on television. Bright yellow dress--not great for the television, her complexion or her hair color, for example. That is not a fix that is a comment on her actual physical attributes nor does it require plastic surgery. She has a beautiful complexion; she's just not doing it any favors on the ice the majority of the time with her color choices for costumes or make-up. She seems to be capable of better choices in her personal life. Her prom picture from her junior year, I think, that appeared on Facebook was a homerun for make-up, hair, dress cut and color---everything. And looking at atrocities like Agnes's neon pink dress last year...it is not out of the realm of possibility that the problem was with Tom Z's team, rather than Rachael.

Hopefully, aside from the hair cut, we'll see better choices with her new team.

See, I loved her Sing, Sing, Sing dress-really did!-and my all-time favorite dress she's worn is the Moon River dress. She even had a decent LP dress at the Olys. I didn't like the neon yellow, but I really never thought of Rachael as a bad dresser until I came here.

brightphoton
09-10-2011, 06:05 PM
Peggy Fleming got her cosmetic surgery AFTER winning the Olympic gold medal, so perhaps she was not influenced by judges' notions of beauty,

What I think was worse is that Janet Lynn didn't skate using her surname because of the possibility of prejudice against her ethnic heritage. At least Tara Lipinski didn't face that obstacle.

Judges should judge skating and leave their personal opinions out of it.

Peggy Fleming got work done? :eek: Peggy, Peggy, Peggy ...

Edit: Oh, and I sort of remember people telling Rachael to cut her hair before. Maybe I'm imaging things though.

leafygreens
09-10-2011, 06:56 PM
I think beauty is very subjective, so I definitely agree that the judges need to look for beauty in what they see. Rachael looked better before last season. That's just my view. Others think she looked better last season than ever before. Others still think that Rachael just won't ever get it together or that she's always been gorgeous or whatever...and everyone is simply expressing an opinion.

The point I was trying to make is that, it's one thing for us fans to wish she would wear something flattering, but we have no power over anything. We just want her to look her best and it's frustrating when she doesn't. It's another thing for a judge - who awards points during performances - to tell her to fix her hair under the guise that it will boost her scores. OTOH, the judge may just have wanted to reduce embarassment to the US contingent by sending out a skater who does not look her best. Maybe that was the whole point of the hair comment. Unfortunately it backfired. I have a feeling though, that being away from Tom Z might do the trick. We'll see...