PDA

View Full Version : Can Ilinykh and Katsalapov win Olympic Gold in 2014?



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 [6]

Carmen Ovsiannikov
08-21-2011, 03:43 AM
.....
Two and a half years is a long time. Lots of unexpected break-ups, injuries, and retirements may happen. Expect to see some European teams really challenging V/M and D/W for the top spots. Never underestimate the power of politiking.

IMO some of the European/Russian teams who will/may challenge D&W and V&M can challenge even without politicking.

It is funny that when/if European and Russian teams do well it's due to powerful politicks but the NA's continue to be seen :saint: who don't play the game. The atmosphere in icedance hasn't changed a bit; it's just accepted and ignored because NA's teams are at the top right now.

IMO everyone plays the game, it's only that certain federations get called on it more than others.

eta:
a56, I wasn't directly attackly you. Just putting down what what in my head and thinking that many people still feel that way when it comes to only the Russian/European couples.

julieann
08-21-2011, 04:36 AM
Either way, it'd be foolish to make a bet now 3 years before the Olympics.

Yes, that is the point I'm trying to make no matter if it's D/W, S/S, I/K, P/B, V/M or whoever.


I'll say it again because you seem quit thick, you have no idea what will go on this season much less in 2014.


Before you spread around insults you should be careful you are using first spelling and grammar while doing so. :lol:

My spelling is fine, so is my grammar, if you need to insult the fact I forgot to press an 'e' at the end of a word; I'm going to let you have that.


Also funny how nobody in this thread agrees with you on P/B, and most have noted they also expect them to retire altogether by 2012.

I don't need to have anyone else agree with me, I'm ok with that.


I agree Davis & White are a bit overrated by the judges at times, and perhaps all the Canton teams are to a degree at the moment, but there is no indication that will change soon.

:wall:

Vash01
08-21-2011, 04:45 AM
IMO some of the European/Russian teams who will/may challenge D&W and V&M can challenge even without politicking.

It is funny that when/if European and Russian teams do well it's due to powerful politicks but the NA's continue to be seen :saint: who don't play the game. The atmosphere in icedance hasn't changed a bit; it's just accepted and ignored because NA's teams are at the top right now.

IMO everyone plays the game, it's only that certain federations get called on it more than others.

eta:
a56, I wasn't directly attackly you. Just putting down what what in my head and thinking that many people still feel that way when it comes to only the Russian/European couples.

I agree with this. There are politics in FS- not just ice dance- and they apply to all parts of the world.

kwanfan1818
08-21-2011, 09:02 AM
So other than Torvill & Dean, Klimova & Ponomarenko, and Gritschuk & Platov, who are all probably superior at this point, and maybe Pakhomova & Gorshkov and Krylova & Ovsiannikov, who is left that was better.

Usova and Zhulin.

zotza
08-21-2011, 11:31 AM
IMO some of the European/Russian teams who will/may challenge D&W and V&M can challenge even without politicking.

It is funny that when/if European and Russian teams do well it's due to powerful politicks but the NA's continue to be seen :saint: who don't play the game. The atmosphere in icedance hasn't changed a bit; it's just accepted and ignored because NA's teams are at the top right now.

IMO everyone plays the game, it's only that certain federations get called on it more than others.



Exactly my thoughts.It seems that now that NA teams are on top, everything is ok and nobody ever complains about the results.It's only bad Europe that fixes results to win.

I think it's too early to predict Sochi.I/K may win,as B/S,R/T,S/S,P/B and the usual suspects D/W and V/M can win .I don't think we'll know until that season.
And no one can say that 21 year old teams have peaked,we can't say that even for P/B.With sports,you never know when an athlete peaks,until you see him/her peak.
It's perfectly ok to hate a team,but in B/S's case in particular sometimes it seems that they've either slaughtered the entire family of some posters or are a danger for mankind.As I can see,I/K are becoming a public threat as well,and P/B are on their way:P.
It's ok, don't worry,they will wait until all of the other teams have retired and get their titles at 50. Plushenko can do it, why can't they?:rofl:

Proustable
08-21-2011, 03:58 PM
One can make the exact same argument in reverse, of course. Now that North America's doing well, all of a sudden politics is a nasty business, whereas before it was okay. I certainly remember a lot of "North Americans are whiners/don't deserve the medals" business during Nagano with B/K (of course, B/K shouldn't have been on the podium, but that's a different conversation)


I respect Dubreuil/Lauzon and their achievements but how long did it take them to get to the top and how long V/M? So perhaps it was clever of D/L not to try to fight for the top spot in Canada back then. Just like Jeffrey Buttle versus Patrick Chan if Buttle hadn't retired.


I agree. My point was more that they were the inarguable number one when they made their ascent, and it was clear the season prior that they would (technical excellence, V/M often outscoring D/L in terms of TES). To me, it's not clear that the path to Russia's number one is as easy as everyone seems to think it is, and this past season was a clear demonstration of why.

Now, people may argue that in the future, that'll change; obviously, that's what we're debating.

julieann, I get the gist of what you're saying, but I'd argue that you're making some wierd comments.

1. The team is that is, at best, third best in their coaching environment just won the bronze medal. Now, that's a fluke. Fine. They just earned fourth place, in their senior debuts, at worlds. That they did so being merely third in their coaching group is incredible. That P/B didn't get the bronze despite being the number one for their coach could be interpreted as troubling.

2. But no matter, they're at a new coach now. That coach happens to be trending towards the same situation that you decry as will negatively affect the Shibutanis chances towards Sochi - the team in Detroit is becoming larger. They have two of the top five teams at worlds and an increasingly large stable of up-and-coming talent.

3. The Shibutanis have shown tremendous readiness this season did. They got feedback early, worked really hard on their GW sequences, and showed up at each event better than before. Pechelat/Bourzat struggled to find a good fit program, but eventually turned it on and early on the season I actually thought they might challenge D/W. By the GPF that proved for naught, of course.

4. They might be reenergized, but we still don't know if the team of K/C et al will be a good fit for them. Remember, they left Zhulin somewhat unwillingly.

5. The Shibutanis are younger. I mean, basically we're wondering if a team will skate for four senior seasons. Then we're wondering if a team will skate for eleven senior seasons. I know which one I'd place my bets on.

6. Obviously, your larger point of "no one can predict the future" is still salient, but that doesn't mean dismissing points that would you lead you to one conclusion over another.

Cherub721
08-21-2011, 04:08 PM
I guess the rest of us are just in a dream World to not realize a veteran team who has never medalled at World isnt going to medal at the next Olympics 3 years away with 2 much younger teams light years beyond them, and a slew of other much younger teams also coming up. :rolleyes:

I mean, I agree with you that P&B will probably retire, and I am pessimistic enough not to expect a medal for them, but it's not impossible, and has even happened under CoP, with GrushGons in 2006. I don't think there will be room for them; it's going to be V&M, D&W, and I think there will be politiking for a Russian team to take the third spot, but I can't see any of the current teams pulling up to that position. Maybe if the Russian teams suck enough, there will be a small opening for P&B.

Autumn_girl
08-21-2011, 05:03 PM
I mean, I agree with you that P&B will probably retire, and I am pessimistic enough not to expect a medal for them, but it's not impossible, and has even happened under CoP, with GrushGons in 2006. I don't think there will be room for them; it's going to be V&M, D&W, and I think there will be politiking for a Russian team to take the third spot, but I can't see any of the current teams pulling up to that position. Maybe if the Russian teams suck enough, there will be a small opening for P&B.

Well, I don't believe in P/B medalling at Worlds anymore. Bronze was in their hands already and the judges were ready to give it to them, but these two gave it away! Maybe at next Worlds they'll have a chance again, but if they weren't able to do it in Russia, at the rink they've been training for a while, then next year, with the pressure of home crowd... I don't know.
Back to I/K: they are incredibly talented, charismatic and their basic skills are just great. They don't need politicking to beat the Shibs, P/B or even D/W, really. What they need is consistency, clean skating and improving from one competition to another. Then there would be no question about Russian number one, I'm sure. They couldn't get it with Zhulin (their perfomances at Euros were great though), maybe Morozov can help them, at least his skaters are usually well prepared, we will see

Cherub721
08-21-2011, 08:11 PM
Back to I/K: they are incredibly talented, charismatic and their basic skills are just great. They don't need politicking to beat the Shibs, P/B or even D/W, really. What they need is consistency, clean skating and improving from one competition to another. Then there would be no question about Russian number one, I'm sure. They couldn't get it with Zhulin (their perfomances at Euros were great though), maybe Morozov can help them, at least his skaters are usually well prepared, we will see

ITA. I would also add "great programs" to your list of what they need. The talent and chemistry are definitely there. They have the special "it" factor that Virtue & Moir had at that age.