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View Full Version : Can Ilinykh and Katsalapov win Olympic Gold in 2014?



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Jenna
08-19-2011, 08:25 PM
That's worthy of :ROFL !

ETA: I don't mean your opinion on the topic, but that you and Judge Judy agreed on something. :lol

Innit! :D

Mayra
08-19-2011, 09:58 PM
:confused::rolleyes:

Did I spell easily wrong? :confused:

:P

~tapdancer~
08-20-2011, 12:37 AM
I'm willing to bet my house on that Davis & White will not go down as of the best Ice Dance couples.


Totally agree. I just never cared for them, and they're not one of the best ice dance couples ever.


Just because the two of you don't happen to like Davis/White, I don't think it's fair to say they won't go down as ONE of the best Ice Dance couples ever. Their competitive record alone speaks for itself. They will be remembered as the first US couple to win Worlds and for US fans, that's worth remembering. They've already amassed quite a collection of gold medals and titles and they aren't even finished yet.

There are several skaters and teams that I don't like but I would not say they aren't worthy of being recognized as one of the best especially if they have the medals and titles to support it. Our personal opinions about the skaters only matters in regards to what we ourselves personally enjoy. It is not for us to say who will remembered as "the best" or "one of the best", based on our personal opinions. That's for history to decide.

Proustable
08-20-2011, 02:11 AM
If you look at the Olympic podium from 2006 to 2010 it is unrecognizable. I think the same thing can happen from 2010 to 2014. I think only B/A and D/S were around in 2006 in the top 10. So predicting the podium this early is at least fun but that's about it, I think seeing if some of the couples stay together is the key.

B/A, DelShoes, DomShabs, and the Kerrs were top ten in both games.

ARE I/K DEFINITELY Russia's number one? I mean, people talk about it as if it's a fait accompli but I can't imagine Bobrova/Soloviev or Riazanova/Tkachenko really just letting them take the top spot. Certainly, it's unlikely any of these teams retire before Sochi, the way Dubreuil/Lauzon did (allowing V/M to take the top spot in Canada without a fight). People talk about The Russian Federation politicking them hard (witness all those who had something to say about their development this season) but after all that, they still lost an FD to Khoklova/Andreev! They had to fight for their Worlds spot. Now, with three spots, that particular fight is easier, but I really wonder how much of the presumed asencion jives with reality.

judgejudy27
08-20-2011, 04:22 AM
Regarding the amongst best teams ever comment, ice dance hasnt even been an Olympic sport that long. As a bit more time goes on I dont know how many teams you could rate over even Davis & White (assuming most of us rate them below Virtue & Moir in historical terms and impact at this point). In my opinion atleast both teams are clearly superior to either Navka & Kostomarov or Anissina & Peizerat, the last 2 Olympic Champions and easily the 2 best teams of the entire 2000s. I loved A&P but technically they would be blown away by both V&M and D&W, even if artistically they would stand a decent chance. Both are also clearly superior to Bestiamanova & Bukin or Linichuk & Karpanasov. So other than Torvill & Dean, Klimova & Ponomarenko, and Gritschuk & Platov, who are all probably superior at this point, and maybe Pakhomova & Gorshkov and Krylova & Ovsiannikov, who is left that was better.

judgejudy27
08-20-2011, 04:27 AM
B/A, DelShoes, DomShabs, and the Kerrs were top ten in both games.

ARE I/K DEFINITELY Russia's number one? I mean, people talk about it as if it's a fait accompli but I can't imagine Bobrova/Soloviev or Riazanova/Tkachenko really just letting them take the top spot. Certainly, it's unlikely any of these teams retire before Sochi, the way Dubreuil/Lauzon did (allowing V/M to take the top spot in Canada without a fight). People talk about The Russian Federation politicking them hard (witness all those who had something to say about their development this season) but after all that, they still lost an FD to Khoklova/Andreev! They had to fight for their Worlds spot. Now, with three spots, that particular fight is easier, but I really wonder how much of the presumed asencion jives with reality.

B/S are at their peak now and still couldnt beat C/P to medal at the GPF or the Shibutanis at Worlds. We will have to see what happens, but I imagine the Russian federation will want to start defining a #1 to build for Sochi and it probably wont be B/S who just arent good enough if they have any real aspirations. I/K should have no problems passing B/S unless their development is really poor.

caseyedwards
08-20-2011, 04:35 AM
People will ask how a team that lost a FD to K/A be any countries number one. But I/K did leave their coach who didn't really do much with them in the first senior season. In a way they had a coach but were doing a lot by themselves. And they still did pretty good. They were slaughtered by the also first year senior team Shibutani/Shibutani in every way but they actually had active and involved coaches which I/K did not have. Katsalopov does have tons and tons of problems that people think Morozov will help with but R/T can be good and even B/S who bore people so bad are still basically a good team. But clearly people are committed to solving all the problems with I/K.

Proustable
08-20-2011, 04:44 AM
B/S are at their peak now and still couldnt beat C/P to medal at the GPF or the Shibutanis at Worlds. We will have to see what happens, but I imagine the Russian federation will want to start defining a #1 to build for Sochi and it probably wont be B/S who just arent good enough if they have any real aspirations. I/K should have no problems passing B/S unless their development is really poor.

I guess I'm just not convinced that B/S are at their peak and/or can't make a fight of it.

What about R/T?

This season is definitely do-or-die for them (I/K, though any of the top Russian teams fit), though.

julieann
08-20-2011, 04:57 AM
If you look at the Olympic podium from 2006 to 2010 it is unrecognizable. I think the same thing can happen from 2010 to 2014. I think only B/A and D/S were around in 2006 in the top 10. So predicting the podium this early is at least fun but that's about it, I think seeing if some of the couples stay together is the key.


B/A, DelShoes, DomShabs, and the Kerrs were top ten in both games.

:duh: Sorry I forgot about D/S and K/K.

So with the theory, only four of the top ten teams who went in the 2010 games will be back in 2014 and only one will medal...in theory; who will it be? Assuming they A. don't retire and B. stay healthy. A few newbies will have to fill in the blanks. But the Olympics are still 2 1/2 years away, a lot can happen.

1 VIRTUE Tessa / MOIR Scott
2 DAVIS Meryl / WHITE Charlie
3 DOMNINA Oksana / SHABALIN Maxim
4 BELBIN Tanith / AGOSTO Benjamin
5 FAIELLA Federica / SCALI Massimo
6 DELOBEL Isabelle / SCHOENFELDER Olivier
7 PECHALAT Nathalie / BOURZAT Fabian
8 KERR Sinead / KERR John
9 KHOKHLOVA Jana / NOVITSKI Sergei
10 ZARETSKY Alexandra / ZARETSKY Roman

judgejudy27
08-20-2011, 05:15 AM
:duh: Sorry I forgot about D/S and K/K.

So with the theory, only four of the top ten teams who went in the 2010 games will be back in 2014 and only one will medal...in theory; who will it be? Assuming they A. don't retire and B. stay healthy. A few newbies will have to fill in the blanks. But the Olympics are still 2 1/2 years away, a lot can happen.

1 VIRTUE Tessa / MOIR Scott
2 DAVIS Meryl / WHITE Charlie
3 DOMNINA Oksana / SHABALIN Maxim
4 BELBIN Tanith / AGOSTO Benjamin
5 FAIELLA Federica / SCALI Massimo
6 DELOBEL Isabelle / SCHOENFELDER Olivier
7 PECHALAT Nathalie / BOURZAT Fabian
8 KERR Sinead / KERR John
9 KHOKHLOVA Jana / NOVITSKI Sergei
10 ZARETSKY Alexandra / ZARETSKY Roman

Well safe to say Faiella & Scali and Pechalat & Bourzat arent going to medal in Sochi, if either is so bold to even still be around by then.

julieann
08-20-2011, 05:19 AM
Well safe to say Faiella & Scali and Pechalat & Bourzat arent going to medal in Sochi, if either is so bold to even still be around by then.

And you are 'safe to say' this because :confused:

I can see F/S flaking out at some point but P/B :huh:

judgejudy27
08-20-2011, 05:28 AM
Needless to say P/B will never come even close to D/W or V/M. That would mean they would have to hold off all the younger teams, and they were already beaten by the Shibutanis at Worlds this year (yeah I know they only lost to them due to that very unfortunate fall, which I was dissapointed by as I really wanted them to get the bronze this year, but the official result is baby rookie team still beat them). They are much older than nearly all the teams behind them, and they still dont have even a World medal. Delobel & Schoenfelder, a much stronger team than P/B, couldnt even medal at the Olympics in two attempts vs a weaker field (especialy the 06 one). So all things considered a medal at the 2014 Games for P/B? More chance of Michelle Kwan coming out of retirement and winning the Olympic Gold at 33.

If P/B get the bronze at the 2012 Worlds on home ice I would be willing to bet they happily (and wisely) take the medal and go pro. Even if they dont get that elusive medal at this years Worlds will probably be their last.

As for F/S they were on the verge of dropping out of the Worlds top 10 this year after their career season in 2006, announced t they were retiring, and they are somehow choosing to return. Well good luck to them, they will need it.

julieann
08-20-2011, 06:14 AM
Needless to say P/B will never come even close to D/W or V/M.

You're assuming D/W and V/M will be still be around in 2014.


That would mean they would have to hold off all the younger teams, and they were already beaten by the Shibutanis at Worlds this year (yeah I know they only lost to them due to that very unfortunate fall, which I was dissapointed by as I really wanted them to get the bronze this year, but the official result is baby rookie team still beat them).

Actually no, S/S didn't get the bronze medal over P/B because of their superior skills. They got the medal because Fabian had an unfortunate 'fluky' fall and took his painter with him, that resulted in a two point deduction and they lost by 1/4 of a point. That fall could (and has) happened to anyone. Many teams have lost medals by less than one point for the same reason it doesn't mean they should ever be counted out.

P/B won gold in every competition last year except a silver in the GPF, and a 4th a worlds. How did the Shibs do? Did they win a gold in anything last season? I don't think so. But they are kids, they still have time. Sure, they have time to break up and get hurt.


So all things considered a medal at the 2014 Games for P/B? More chance of Michelle Kwan coming out of retirement and winning the Olympic Gold at 33.

:duh: + infinity

Domshabfan
08-20-2011, 06:20 AM
Needless to say P/B will never come even close to D/W or V/M. That would mean they would have to hold off all the younger teams, and they were already beaten by the Shibutanis at Worlds this year (yeah I know they only lost to them due to that very unfortunate fall, which I was dissapointed by as I really wanted them to get the bronze this year, but the official result is baby rookie team still beat them). They are much older than nearly all the teams behind them, and they still dont have even a World medal. Delobel & Schoenfelder, a much stronger team than P/B, couldnt even medal at the Olympics in two attempts vs a weaker field (especialy the 06 one). So all things considered a medal at the 2014 Games for P/B? More chance of Michelle Kwan coming out of retirement and winning the Olympic Gold at 33.

If P/B get the bronze at the 2012 Worlds on home ice I would be willing to bet they happily (and wisely) take the medal and go pro. Even if they dont get that elusive medal at this years Worlds will probably be their last.

As for F/S they were on the verge of dropping out of the Worlds top 10 this year after their career season in 2006, announced t they were retiring, and they are somehow choosing to return. Well good luck to them, they will need it.
D/W did not medal in world championships until they won a medal at Olympics... So this can happen again with other teams. As for P/B, there is no certainty they will medal at next Olympics, similarly there is no certainty that they won't medal at next Olympics.

The most puzzling or your statement is D/W superior to A/P. A/P is one of the most innovative and one of teh most wonderful team to skate. D/W are good technically but not artistically.

Jenna
08-20-2011, 06:22 AM
D/W did not medal in world championships until they won a medal at Olympics... So this can happen again with other teams. As for P/B, there is no certainty they will medal at next Olympics, similarly there is no certainty that they won't medal at next Olympics.

The most puzzling or your statement is D/W superior to A/P. A/P is one of the most innovative and one of teh most wonderful team to skate. D/W are good technically but not artistically.

That's an opinion. I disagree.