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judgejudy27
08-14-2011, 05:20 AM
Flawless? I love Kimmie dearly, but I know that only 5 of those 7 triples would have counted now-a-days. Alena did 6 clean ones. Don't get me started on spins and steps! Leonova also didn't benefit from having a spiral sequence (more points) in either program. Leonova's SP in 2011 was also superior to Kimmie's in 2006. And as brought up by another poster, Kimmie was the beneficiary of very high PCS because of a stunning skate on a night of pretty mediocre performances. She never received such high PCS again, nor did she deserve it.

I have to admit I laugh time and time again when I see yet another trash can thread started by you. So, I guess I can say "Thanks for the laughs," too! :lol: :40beers: :P

Whatever, if you really think Leonova would have beaten Meissner at the 2006 Worlds you are smoking some pretty good crack. I dont even know why you are bother talking about scoring changes since nobody is going to compare scores from 2006 to 2011 anyway. If you want to bring scoring into it though, scoring in general is far elevated as time goes on across all disciplines, so the fact Meissner scored so much higher at the 2006 Worlds vs Leonova at the Moscow Worlds, when comparable performances per discipline are usual about 20 points higher than back then, already says enough.

Your point on PCS is also completely false. Meissner received very high PCS internationally the next 2 seasons until after her meltdown at the 08 Nationals which forever dropped her rep. Only Kim and Asada regularly received higher PCS, and actually just barely most of the time, and in fact on occasion Asada was lower. Even Ando received lower PCS than Meissner in the majority of head to head programs those almost 2 seasons, the season of Ando's first World title and as her being reigning World Champion. Even with flawed performances Meissner was receiving high PCS in the coming seasons, most times on par with the low to mid 7s she received at the 2006 Worlds (which back then was very high). Also far more likely Leonova will never again reach the PCS she did at the Moscow Worlds anywhere else, as it was generally felt she got a home court boost, and her PCS are always much lower than they were there.

Meissner in her relatively short prime received much higher PCS amongst the top women than Leonova ever did.

Jenna
08-14-2011, 05:35 AM
I dont even know why you are bother talking about scoring changes since nobody is going to compare scores from 2006 to 2011 anyway.

But isn't that what you were doing by stating that "performances fighting for the bronze this year would bearly have made the top 10 in previous years?" I was responding to you, my dear.


If you want to bring scoring into it though, scoring in general is far elevated as time goes on across all disciplines, so the fact Meissner scored so much higher at the 2006 Worlds vs Leonova at the Moscow Worlds, when comparable performances per discipline are usual about 20 points higher than back then, already says enough.

That's so false, it's hilarious. Over time, elements have been removed from both the SP and FS, which means that scores, on average, are much lower than they would have been before 2011. Perfect example: Carolina Kostner skated a clean SP in the 2010-2011 GPF, and scored 62.13. Carolina Kostner skated a clean SP in the 2010 Euro. Champs, but with a lower base value on jumps. She scored 65.80 points there. In case you were wondering, her PCS was higher at this year's final. Why? In 2010, the spiral sequence added points to her SP score. This argument makes zero sense.


Your point on PCS is also completely false. Meissner received very high PCS internationally the next 2 seasons

You didn't pay attention to my wording. I didn't say she didn't get relatively high PCS in the future, I said she never got PCS as high ever again. Kindly direct me to the next time her PCS in an ISU sanctioned event was 60+, and I will shut up.

By the way that comment about me smoking crack, totally classy. You truly are the definition of a classless and illogical person, judgejudy27. Your user name is an insult to the outrageous, yet highly intelligent real life figure. You might want to consider changing it to something like "tonyaharding94." It might more accurately represent your demeanor.

AndyWarhol
08-14-2011, 08:16 AM
:watch:

Maofan7
08-14-2011, 11:06 PM
Don't know what to make of this:-

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/sp20110810it.html

Hope Mao is simply having a rest and getting herself properly prepared for the grand prix. She needs to have a better season this year to get herself back on track.

Proustable
08-15-2011, 12:21 AM
Jenna, I do think that the scoring, in general, does increase as well, mainly because judges are getting more comfortable using the higher scores in PCS. It's no surprise that the first ten given by a judge came in the Olympic season, and that skaters are seeing multiple tens by Worlds.

Not sure who would've won in a head to head match, though. I know I don't care all that much, since the initial point that judgejudy was making - that the quality of skating in 2011 was quite low - stands regardless (as it was at the 2006 worlds for the ladies) of the presume victor of this hypothetical.

judgejudy27
08-15-2011, 01:23 AM
But isn't that what you were doing by stating that "performances fighting for the bronze this year would bearly have made the top 10 in previous years?" I was responding to you, my dear.

I was judging that by the quality of skating, not by scores which would have been obvious to anyone else but you. Of course even basic reading comprehension is not one of your fortes (well then again what is really, lol!). Since YOU chose to bring up scores that is far from in the favor of your argument as well though.

I wont even bother with the rest of your drivel.

Jenna
08-15-2011, 01:47 AM
I was judging that by the quality of skating, not by scores which would have been obvious to anyone else but you. Of course even basic reading comprehension is not one of your fortes (well then again what is really, lol!). Since YOU chose to bring up scores that is far from in the favor of your argument as well though.

I wont even bother with the rest of your drivel.

How was I supposed to know that? You should have been more clear. Stop assuming that others can actually accurately comprehend the babble that you consistently write. If you have the gall to attack a college graduate with a B.A. in biology on her basic reading comprehension skills, perhaps you should pay attention to your own oversights in the English language. Even the brief passage above is littered with errors in grammar and punctuation. In the words of Judge Judy herself, "I on my worst day, am far more intelligent than you, on your best day!"

I see you haven't renamed yourself yet. You should get on that. :rofl:

Frau Muller
08-16-2011, 07:05 PM
The scary thing is that the two 'Russian Babies' already have the poise & maturity to challenge the Czisnys. Let's not forget that the two "babies" handily beat many older ladies at Russian Nationals...and Russia is the land of artistry/ballet, in which judges understand artistry. The babies were not "gifted" high artistic marks. So they must have the poise and maturity right now.

Speaking of judging artistry at a Russian Nationals...I will be very surprised to see how the judges score the choreography of a Marilyn Monroe-themed FS, as Makarova is planning. If it's done in a "campy" manner, forget it.

Vash01
08-16-2011, 08:09 PM
The scary thing is that the two 'Russian Babies' already have the poise & maturity to challenge the Czisnys. Let's not forget that the two "babies" handily beat many older ladies at Russian Nationals...and Russia is the land of artistry/ballet, in which judges understand artistry. The babies were not "gifted" high artistic marks. So they must have the poise and maturity right now.

Speaking of judging artistry at a Russian Nationals...I will be very surprised to see how the judges score the choreography of a Marilyn Monroe-themed FS, as Makarova is planning. If it's done in a "campy" manner, forget it.

Very true, but somehow the Russian ladies in singles have not been all that artistic/balletic (Irina Slutskaya, Alena Leonova) yet quite successful in competitions. Makarova is not artistic either. The baby ballerinas though seem to have the jumps and the balletic postures. Only time will tell how many will survive puberty, and how many have the nerves needed to win championships.

Mayra
08-16-2011, 09:52 PM
Interesting article from Alexa Ainsworth in Universal Sports:-

http://www.universalsports.com/news-blogs/blogs/blog=gofigure/postid=548283.html

According to Ainsworth, the problem with the forthcoming season in the ladies is that "the newbies with the triple-triple combinations lack the maturity of the veterans - who lack the triple-triple. We are having a difficult time thinking of a skater who has the poise and presence of a senior lady and can throw down an effortless triple Lutz-triple toe." However, I don't think that this is necessarily the case. This view is based on last year's junior performances and Sotnikova's and Tuktamysheva's performances certainly did not lack 'poise'. Moreover, both Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva will be a year older and that extra year will bring additional poise and maturity to their skating. I think therefore that the suggestion that there programs during the coming season will lack poise and maturity is a bit premature.

I think Ainsworth was referring more to the American ladies than the international ones. IMO Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva have a lot of room to grow, but there is no doubt in my mind that they can and will be competitive with the veterans next season.

As for the Americans, if I was Wagner and Nagasu, I would definitely be looking over my shoulder. How long have we been hearing about 3/3's from both camps and I've yet to see anything materialize. There are a lot of interesting skaters coming up the ranks and they may not be ready to challenge them now, but come 2014 the field looks to be a challenge. Especially if the US continues to retain only 2 spots. JMO

Jenna
08-16-2011, 10:18 PM
Very true, but somehow the Russian ladies in singles have not been all that artistic/balletic (Irina Slutskaya, Alena Leonova) yet quite successful in competitions. Makarova is not artistic either. The baby ballerinas though seem to have the jumps and the balletic postures. Only time will tell how many will survive puberty, and how many have the nerves needed to win championships.

I don't think Makarova is artistic in the classical, balletic sense. I do think she has great power, competitive fire, expression, and drama as shown in in last year's SP.