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bek
08-08-2011, 06:09 AM
I've been thinking this lately and seems like in modeling and even in acting. You have either size Zero, or you have Plus size. What I don't understand is why the modeling and acting industry doesn't encourage healthy. You know women with healthy BMIS, that are toned and fit. Not necessarily stick thin, but not overweight either.

I was reading and there were people saying that women who are 4,6,8,10 are the ones turned down by the modeling industry, and that's just ridiculous to me.

It just bothers me that healthy is encouraged for women/girls. And I'm not saying you have to be 4,6, 8, 10 to be healthy it depends on body shape too. But it just bothers me that normal weight/BMI isn't encouraged. I mean you have women who are told to gain weight so they can be a "plused sized model" because they aren't super stick thin. Sigh. I find the whole thing frustrating and just wish healthy was encouraged.

Anita18
08-08-2011, 07:58 AM
I think it all comes down to sample sizes. Women's bodies are all drastically different but the models need to fit a particular size. If you're skin and bones, you'll be easy to fit. Plus-size models, probably a little more difficult but the weight will settle in pretty evenly everywhere. In between, the weight can sit unevenly in all sorts of combinations and the designers can't work to fit every combination. So the models are told to be able to fit the clothes or leave. I'm skinny enough to be a model up top but I'm sure they would tell me I'd need to lose 10 lbs off my thighs, which is impossible because the way I'm built. It's no skin off my back, I never aspired to model. :P I'm certainly old/mature enough to realize it's just a system, it has no bearing with how desirable I am to the opposite sex. Or rather, desirable to the members of the opposite sex I want to attract. ;) (I figured I'd weed out the superficial types if I didn't go around dressed to the nines all the time.)

The super-skinny actresses are misleading. Note the kind of acting they do - soap operas, pretty faces in bland roles. I think if one is truly able to act, you have more leeway in how you look. But many people are willing to lose weight or go under the knife to get in front of the camera any way they can.

Models are used to sell clothes. As long as people are aware of that, I think healthy can be encouraged alongside the stringent fashion industry. Sexualizing female athletes is another thing entirely, but at least they're healthy?

Japanfan
08-08-2011, 11:53 AM
The super-skinny actresses are misleading. Note the kind of acting they do - soap operas, pretty faces in bland roles.


But there sure are a lot of super skinny celebrity actresses, just look at any People magazine. It seems to be the most of them. Whenever one gets a bit chunky, the magazine speculates as to why.

I remember all the fuss about skinny Jessica Parker's abs after she gave birth. It was mind-boggling. How does someone stay so firm and skinny, especially after being pregnant? When I was young my solution was starvation, but that can't be maintained for years. And if someone is rich and can afford the best of food and drink, dieting must be even harder. I'm reminded of Uma Thurman's character in that movie The Truth About Cats and Dogs, where she didn't anything and went on about how much she loved readings menus. . .then finally had a sugar meltdown.

It's true that some people are naturally skinny, but there seems to be a much larger proportion in Hollywood than elsewhere.

Though for a reality check, there's always Oprah. :)



I think if one is truly able to act, you have more leeway in how you look. But many people are willing to lose weight or go under the knife to get in front of the camera any way they can.


To a certain extent. Kate Winslet refused to go super skinny, but does watch her weight.

You just don't see much extra flesh on actresses, excepting those who aim for roles for heavier women. Rene Zelewegger (sp?) put on 20 pounds for the Bridget Jones role but got herself back to a size 0 pretty darn fast.

And you need to fit into the red carpet dress if you walk the red carpet. I remember Emma Thompson saying that required her to pretty much stop eating for a while.

Holley Calmes
08-08-2011, 01:21 PM
There are "in between" models out there, but you don't see them in magazines or on the red carpet. They are "fit models." My daughter's sister in law is one in NYC. She is a "perfect size 12." She does a branch of the modeling industry I would never have thought about. She has patterns fitted on her. She models for inside industry events. She is absolutely gorgeous and stays extremely fit. But she does indeed fall into that in between size. Definitely not a plus size. Definitely not skinny. And definitely making a good living for the past ten years in the Big Apple being a model.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitting_model

PDilemma
08-08-2011, 01:25 PM
I've been thinking this lately and seems like in modeling and even in acting. You have either size Zero, or you have Plus size. What I don't understand is why the modeling and acting industry doesn't encourage healthy. You know women with healthy BMIS, that are toned and fit. Not necessarily stick thin, but not overweight either.

I was reading and there were people saying that women who are 4,6,8,10 are the ones turned down by the modeling industry, and that's just ridiculous to me.

It just bothers me that healthy is encouraged for women/girls. And I'm not saying you have to be 4,6, 8, 10 to be healthy it depends on body shape too. But it just bothers me that normal weight/BMI isn't encouraged. I mean you have women who are told to gain weight so they can be a "plused sized model" because they aren't super stick thin. Sigh. I find the whole thing frustrating and just wish healthy was encouraged.

This bothers me, too. Especially because the campaigns to include "real women" in ads, magazines, etc...always focus on plus-size women. The message has become that there is super thin size 0 and 00 (and some women are naturally that size, my mother at age 67, is one...she has always been that size without trying and probably always will be) and there are overweight women. And that the super thin ones are artificial Hollywood creations and everyone else is and should be overweight. It is not reality at all. And the message that there is no healthy in-between is a very bad message.

TAHbKA
08-08-2011, 01:26 PM
mainly because we want to see pretty things on the TV. Not everyone has perfect teeth, but that's what we see. Not everyone has a perfect accent, but that the way they speak from the TV. You are supposed to be entertained when watching the TV, not think of the world's problems.

GarrAarghHrumph
08-08-2011, 02:37 PM
I teach marketing, and as part of that I've read several studies that show that when women see "real women" on tv advertising products, they don't buy those products. When they see "ideal women" on tv, they do buy. So yes, part of it is the advertisers, but part is also the consumer.

The definition of "ideal woman" varies from target market to target market. For example, when you see ads targeted toward older folks, the people shown tend to be older, but they often look darn good for their age. Often, plus-size models are not a size 22 - they are a really good looking US size 14 (or 12, or 10.) They are idealized versions of that target market.

GarrAarghHrumph
08-08-2011, 02:48 PM
The super-skinny actresses are misleading. Note the kind of acting they do - soap operas, pretty faces in bland roles. I think if one is truly able to act, you have more leeway in how you look. But many people are willing to lose weight or go under the knife to get in front of the camera any way they can.




But there sure are a lot of super skinny celebrity actresses, just look at any People magazine. It seems to be the most of them. Whenever one gets a bit chunky, the magazine speculates as to why.

...It's true that some people are naturally skinny, but there seems to be a much larger proportion in Hollywood than elsewhere.

...You just don't see much extra flesh on actresses, excepting those who aim for roles for heavier women. Rene Zelewegger (sp?) put on 20 pounds for the Bridget Jones role but got herself back to a size 0 pretty darn fast.


I know a lot of actresses through my husband, who is an actor. In general, many of the actresses that *appear* to be less skinny on film, in real life are quite thin; and those that appear skinny are *extremely* thin. I remember standing next to one actress from the TV show LOST and thinking that I was at least three of her. On TV, she looked no where near as thin as she did in real life.

Those actresses I know who are more of a US size 6-10, thus not "Hollywood" thin, have been told that if they lose weight, they will work more. And in general, that's been true.

Veronika
08-08-2011, 04:10 PM
There was a local TV reporter who came to speak at my school when I was in 7th grade. She did not look great on TV--she looked to be about a size 12 (which I suppose would be a size 8/10 nowadays) and always looked tired.

I was shocked when I saw her in person--she was slim (probably a size 4/6) and looked much prettier and younger than she did on TV. Cameras can be quite cruel...so that explains why a lot of actresses are so thin, it translates better.

aliceanne
08-08-2011, 05:10 PM
If you were happy with yourself you wouldn't go out and buy stuff! Even TV shows and movies are marketing products. That's why tv and movie producers don't target people over 49. They are either satisfied with their life or have given up (been there, done that, it's not worth the effort).

GarrAarghHrumph
08-08-2011, 05:31 PM
...That's why tv and movie producers don't target people over 49. They are either satisfied with their life or have given up (been there, done that, it's not worth the effort).

No, that is not correct. First, some products are targeted at people over that age. It depends on what the product is. Second, the reason why other products' marketing is not targeted at people past a certain age is that by that time in your life, you've usually already developed a pretty firm loyalty to certain brands.

LadyGray
08-08-2011, 07:05 PM
mainly because we want to see pretty things on the TV. Not everyone has perfect teeth, but that's what we see. Not everyone has a perfect accent, but that the way they speak from the TV. You are supposed to be entertained when watching the TV, not think of the world's problems.

But what if over-emphasizing skinniness on television perpetuates some of those world problems (anorexia, bulemia, and other eating disorders, for instance)?

aliceanne
08-08-2011, 08:58 PM
No, that is not correct. First, some products are targeted at people over that age. It depends on what the product is. Second, the reason why other products' marketing is not targeted at people past a certain age is that by that time in your life, you've usually already developed a pretty firm loyalty to certain brands.

I dsagree. 18-49 is the preferred demographic for advertisers, and I don't believe the reason is because older people have brand loyalty. I think older people just plain don't buy as much. It isn't new and exciting to them anymore.

MacMadame
08-08-2011, 09:05 PM
If you were happy with yourself you wouldn't go out and buy stuff!
Right, because only unhappy people buy clothing, food, cars, etc. :lol:

There's a reason companies advertise. It works. And it's not just unhappy or stupid people that it works on either.


But what if over-emphasizing skinniness on television perpetuates some of those world problems (anorexia, bulemia, and other eating disorders, for instance)?
Well, what if it does? People creating tv ads and tv shows are doing it to make money. Is it really their responsibility to try change the world? Did no one have eating disorders before there was tv?

To get back to the OP's questions... I think you are mixing many issues together as if they are one big issue when they aren't. For one thing, the entertainment industry isn't some monolithic organization that sits in a back room and decides as a unit on what the best image of women and men is to project. It's made up of people just like us with their own agendas and their own concerns. The fashion industry is another industry entirely with it's own issues and problems. As is the advertisement industry.

For the fashion industry, they have economic realities. As was said above, they really can't be making samples in all sorts of sizes and shapes. They need interchangeable models who fit the clothes. If supermodel Sally is sick that day, then the clothes have to fit supermodel Daisy instead. Having a variety of sizes and shape at fashion shows doesn't translate into greater sales for the designer and it increases the logistical problems so why do it?

This is a different issue than the issue of what size and shape the interchangeable model should be. And that's a different issue yet again than the issue of what messages using these models sends to the public.

Speaking of those messages, I do find some of the reaction to hearing what size these models are to be a bit mystifying. I understand when the models are dying of anorexia and look like aliens and not humans that this upsets people. It upsets me. And it should.

But I don't understand when people read that today's Plus Size model is a size 8 or 10 and they have hysterics. "How dare they tell me I'm Plus Size" is a common cry. But they aren't saying that. When you go to the store to buy clothes, the 8s and 10s are still in the Misses section and not the Womens section (for non-US posters, Womens is code for Plus Size in the US). They aren't labeled Plus Size either.

So why feel like you've been personally insulted and why does your view of yourself change when you find out what size some models on a catwalk wear? I am hoping the outrage I see on the web about this is just typical internet piling on but knowing that women won't buy clothes if the size has a bigger number than they accept as their size, I suspect that some people really do have their view of themselves seriously challenged by the fact that Plus Sized models wear the same size as them.

For me, I find it exasperating because you can't get a true sense of how the clothes will look on you if the model is not really Plus Size. OTOH, if I was a size 8 and I found out that was the new size of today's plus model, I'd think "Hey, maybe I could be a Plus Size model" not "How dare you tell me I'm Plus Size."

I think that we wouldn't see unhealthy weights on women in these industries if we didn't want to see them.

As Tahbaka said, when "real" models are used, people don't buy the products. So whose fault is that? The company who is spending millions on tv ads and wants them to be as effective as possible or the people watching them who won't buy unless the people in the commercial project a certain image?

If we turned off the tv when the show was all skinny-minnies and watched shows with people of a variety of sizes, then the entertainment industry would cast their shows differently. If we didn't buy fashion magazines with Photoshoped celebrities on the cover, they'd stop photoshopping them. We can say we don't want to see these images but our buying behaviors contradict that.

MacMadame
08-08-2011, 09:15 PM
I dsagree. 18-49 is the preferred demographic for advertisers, and I don't believe the reason is because older people have brand loyalty. I think older people just plain don't buy as much. It isn't new and exciting to them anymore.
Of course 50+ people buy things. We're not running around naked so we buy clothes. We have to eat. Our cars and appliances breakdown just like the 20-something's cars. We go on vacations. We have hobbies. We're on the internet so we must buy computers and internet access.

Do you really think anyone over the age of 49 is ancient and just sits at home all day waiting to die, hoarding our money so we can leave it to our heirs? :lol:

Even if you do think that, advertisers don't. Their stated reason for not targeting our age group is not that we don't buy things, but that we have brand loyalty. My own experience is that this used to be very true but today's seniors have a lot less brand loyalty than my parent's generation. Hopefully advertisers have woken up to that.