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Bournekraatzfan
08-04-2011, 10:40 PM
some favourites:

"Angel Standing By"-showed off her lightness, her ease of movement, the gorgeous run of her edge...and her natural feel for the music

"Brazilica"-showcased those wicked feet--clean, sharp, lightning-fast

skatesindreams
08-05-2011, 12:53 AM
More favorites:

Yuka Sato 2001 Hallmark's Skating Champrionships "Color of Roses"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzUPUGEyrWU

Clair de lune, Yuka Sato - Fan Cam - SOI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlPCnJFMR80&feature=related

figurefan
08-05-2011, 01:47 AM
So I really don't understand this thread . What more could she possibly do?

No need to understand it...That's why they call this section The Trash Can. ;)

I remember when Yuka and Jason did some pairs stuff together as pros. They were actually quite good.

I find nothing puzzling about her career. She had success as an eligible skater, went on to success in the pros and dabbled in pairs. Now she is part of a coaching team that has already produced a couple of National Champions. I would actually call it a well rounded career.

krenseby
08-05-2011, 02:17 AM
went on to success in the pros

But what is meant by success in the pros? I mean wasn't the ladies field in pro competition weak to the point that pretty much any top 10 competitor from Worlds could walk in and win the World Pros?

falling_dance
08-05-2011, 03:18 AM
But what is meant by success in the pros? I mean wasn't the ladies field in pro competition weak to the point that pretty much any top 10 competitor from Worlds could walk in and win the World Pros?

OTOH, why is 1996 Worlds remembered as featuring one of the greatest ladies' competitions ever? It's true that there were a number of impressive performances--particularly strong SPs for the time--but it's really just about the top two finishers. As far as a top-ten lady walking in to win at Landover goes, I'm not sure I can see Elena Liashenko, Marie-Pierre Leray, or even Maria Butyrskaya and a very young Irina Slutskaya beating Yuka Sato and Kristi Yamaguchi, even bearing in mind the advantage of the smaller field. (For one thing, the limited number of jumping passes would obviate the Oly-eligibles' clearest technical advantage.) Granted, Sato and Yamaguchi competed at the same World Pros just three times (1994-6), but their competing against each other counts for something. Heck, Hughes and Butyrskaya didn't beat Sato in 2002.

Of course, another thing that's meant by "success in pros" is that Sato gave a number of memorable performances, like the Spartacus TP at 1995 World Pros and Song of the Homeland at the 2002 Hallmark Championships. That Sato surely made decent money and a lot of people were watching at home didn't hurt, either.

TheIronLady
08-05-2011, 03:40 AM
Going out on a high note used to be the ideal.

judgejudy27
08-05-2011, 03:49 AM
OTOH, why is 1996 Worlds remembered as featuring one of the greatest ladies' competitions ever? It's true that there were a number of impressive performances--particularly strong SPs for the time--but it's really just about the top two finishers. As far as a top-ten lady walking in to win at Landover goes, I'm not sure I can see Elena Liashenko, Marie-Pierre Leray, or even Maria Butyrskaya and even a very young Irina Slutskaya beating Yuka Sato and Kristi Yamaguchi, even bearing in mind the advantage of the smaller field. (For one thing, the limited number of jumping passes would obviate the Oly-eligibles' clearest technical advantage.) Granted, Sato and Yamaguchi competed at the same World Pros just three times (1994-6), but their competing against each other counts for something. Heck, Hughes and Butyrskaya didn't beat Sato in 2002.

Of course, another thing that's meant by "success in pros" is that Sato gave a number of memorable performances, like the Spartacus TP at 1995 World Pros and Song of the Homeland at the 2002 Hallmark Championships. That Sato surely made decent money and a lot of people were watching at home doesn't hurt, either.

I tend to agree. Yamaguchi and Sato in their pro form at the time would have been competing with Kwan and Chen in 96, and dusting the rest of the field at the 96 Worlds. Slutskaya had little girly programs, took a huge fall on her side on her triple lutz, and still won the bronze easily by a wide margin.

Meanwhile any of Yamaguchi, Sato, and Ito in their late 94 pro form would have probably thrashed the field at the 95 Worlds.

The World Pros around that time was not a weak event at all. That goes for all the disciplines. In all of them the top skaters were comparable to the top amateur, and in some events like the pairs and dance they were much better.

As for the idea of any top 10 skater from Worlds winning the World Pros, LOL! Skaters like Kwiatkowski (although kudos to her excellent career best performances at Worlds this year), Yokoyo, Vorobieva, top 10 finishers at the Worlds that year, would have stuck out like a sore thumb at the World Pros and placed a distant last, unless they still invited Katerina Witt. Ito skated miserably at Worlds with only 2 clean triples in the long program, and still placed 6th or 7th. A washed up Bonaly with mediocre performances and a fall in the short program placed 5th.

Coco
08-05-2011, 03:58 AM
I think all the skaters from the non-traditional powers (Sato, Chen, Tanja S.* Bonaly at her best, etc.), these skaters really forced significant improvements in judging.

I guess I don't know enough about skaters finishing #3-#8 prior to '84, but it seems like the skaters I listed put TPTB in a position of needing a more equitable scoring system. They were too good to be denied forever, and there just weren't enough opportunities to reward them.

figurefan
08-05-2011, 12:53 PM
But what is meant by success in the pros? I mean wasn't the ladies field in pro competition weak to the point that pretty much any top 10 competitor from Worlds could walk in and win the World Pros?

She made good money and won competitions, I would consider that a success. I guess one could argue the quality of the competitors could have better but as falling_dance pointed out she had memorable performances and made decent money.

olympic
08-05-2011, 03:36 PM
I tend to agree. Yamaguchi and Sato in their pro form at the time would have been competing with Kwan and Chen in 96, and dusting the rest of the field at the 96 Worlds. Slutskaya had little girly programs, took a huge fall on her side on her triple lutz, and still won the bronze easily by a wide margin.

Meanwhile any of Yamaguchi, Sato, and Ito in their late 94 pro form would have probably thrashed the field at the 95 Worlds.

The World Pros around that time was not a weak event at all. That goes for all the disciplines. In all of them the top skaters were comparable to the top amateur, and in some events like the pairs and dance they were much better.

As for the idea of any top 10 skater from Worlds winning the World Pros, LOL! Skaters like Kwiatkowski (although kudos to her excellent career best performances at Worlds this year), Yokoyo, Vorobieva, top 10 finishers at the Worlds that year, would have stuck out like a sore thumb at the World Pros and placed a distant last, unless they still invited Katerina Witt. Ito skated miserably at Worlds with only 2 clean triples in the long program, and still placed 6th or 7th. A washed up Bonaly with mediocre performances and a fall in the short program placed 5th.

I also agree that they would've both been ahead of a young Slute and everyone else, but Chen and Kwan were in peak form w/ much improved artistry and 6 - 7 triples respectively. KY without a 3sal would've really needed the 3-3 in '96 to compete with them. Was she still capable of that? [but then again, KY staying amateur successfully thru '96 would've probably built her rep with the judges]. Sato, I'm not too sure about: She had the SS but what about her technically could've placed her even or shot her ahead of the above 3??

Also, not to stray too far OT, but wasn't Chouinard a good pro skater in the 90s? Could she have competed with the above and been ahead of someone like Slute in '96?

gkelly
08-05-2011, 04:32 PM
Is the question how Yamaguchi and Sato would have done at Worlds ca. 1996 skating under ISU rules, or how the Worlds top-10 skaters would have done at World Pros under a format with fewer jumps and more importance to artistry?

orbitz
08-05-2011, 05:26 PM
Yuka was only doing three different triples as a pro: sal, toe, loop. The lutz was a rare jump for her. She wouldn't have been competitive technically with the top 5 skaters in the eligible rank.

Kristi would have done alright since she did all the triples minus the sal and axel, and the judges liked her.

World Pro judging was always highly suspect. The judges definitely had their favorites and wouldn't have placed a Liashenko, for example, above more established stars who skated technically below par but othwerise solid programs.

gkelly
08-05-2011, 05:40 PM
Also, not to stray too far OT, but wasn't Chouinard a good pro skater in the 90s? Could she have competed with the above and been ahead of someone like Slute in '96?

Chouinard reinstated and competed on the Grand Prix Champions Series in 1995-96. She beat Slutskaya convincingly at Trophee de France


1 Josée Chouinard Canada 2.5 1 2
2 Lu Chen China 4.5 7 1
3 Surya Bonaly France 4.5 3 3
4 Irina Slutskaya Russia 6.0 4 4
5 Tonia Kwiatkowski United States 8.0 6 5
6 Krisztina Czakó Hungary 8.0 2 7
7 Szusanna Szwed Poland 8.5 5 6
8 Astrid Hochstetter Germany 12.0 8 8
9 Marie-Pierre Leray France 13.5 9 9

and was right up there with her at the series final


1 Michelle Kwan United States 3.0 4 1
2 Irina Slutskaya Russia 3.5 3 2
3 Josée Chouinard Canada 4.0 2 3
4 Chen Lu China 5.5 1 5
5 Hanae Yokoya Japan 7.0 7 4
6 Olga Markova Russia 8.5 5 6
7 Maria Butyrskaya Russia 10.0 6 7

So she might have been able to contend for a medal at Worlds. Or she might have bombed like she did at Canadians that year, losing the title and the one ladies' spot at Worlds to Jennifer Robinson. Or anything in between.

In the end she just went back to being a pro where there was less pressure.

judgejudy27
08-05-2011, 05:42 PM
I also agree that they would've both been ahead of a young Slute and everyone else, but Chen and Kwan were in peak form w/ much improved artistry and 6 - 7 triples respectively. KY without a 3sal would've really needed the 3-3 in '96 to compete with them. Was she still capable of that? [but then again, KY staying amateur successfully thru '96 would've probably built her rep with the judges]. Sato, I'm not too sure about: She had the SS but what about her technically could've placed her even or shot her ahead of the above 3??

Also, not to stray too far OT, but wasn't Chouinard a good pro skater in the 90s? Could she have competed with the above and been ahead of someone like Slute in '96?

Kristi and Michelle competed agaisnt each other at the Ultimate Four in fall 1996. In the short program both skated cleanly with the same jumps and Kristi won on a 3-2 split. In the long Michelle skated cleanly again and Kristi fell apart in her Tango number. She would definitely be competitive in the short program, I dont know about the long. Her jump consistency would probably be waning with age at that point. However she would have the reputation factor in her favor if she were amateur, she would have a history of past titles and been around alot longer than Michelle or even Lu.

The lutz was not a rare jump for Yuka in the 94 and 95 fall pro seasons btw. She usually landed it. She started to lose it for good in fall of 96. I would also assume all the top pros would be doing atleast slightly more jump wise if they training for amateur instead. Even Boitano whose body was too beat up for amateur competition and was the dominant pro at the time tried more jump content in his amateur programs than his pros when he returned.

olympic
08-05-2011, 06:30 PM
Kristi and Michelle competed agaisnt each other at the Ultimate Four in fall 1996. In the short program both skated cleanly with the same jumps and Kristi won on a 3-2 split. In the long Michelle skated cleanly again and Kristi fell apart in her Tango number. She would definitely be competitive in the short program, I dont know about the long. Her jump consistency would probably be waning with age at that point. However she would have the reputation factor in her favor if she were amateur, she would have a history of past titles and been around alot longer than Michelle or even Lu.

The lutz was not a rare jump for Yuka in the 94 and 95 fall pro seasons btw. She usually landed it. She started to lose it for good in fall of 96. I would also assume all the top pros would be doing atleast slightly more jump wise if they training for amateur instead. Even Boitano whose body was too beat up for amateur competition and was the dominant pro at the time tried more jump content in his amateur programs than his pros when he returned.


You may have seen a '96 Worlds competition with a 3-way battle among Kwan, Chen, and Yamaguchim, and both young Euro champ Slutskaya and Sato in a best-of-the-rest situation just off the podium, as well as extreme wild card Chouinard anywhere between medal threat to out of the top 10!