PDA

View Full Version : Lady Gaga on Ice declaim against ISU:they make figure skating losing its beauty



Pages : 1 2 3 [4] 5

judiz
07-24-2011, 02:47 AM
So how is this not "personal"?


This is just my opinion, but when I think of personal, I think of skaters chosing music that tells a story that is close to them (losing a parent to cancer, finding or losing love, discovering who they are etc.). There are skaters who will skate to music but have no idea what the music means or the story behind it and there are other skaters who really try to relate to the music and tell the story. Since we were talking about Johnny, his Love is War free skate told the story of his broken romance, his Fallen Angel routine told the story of how he rose up from being knocked down to come back and fight again. CoN was created by Marina and you can tell by its failure that it was not a routine that was personal to Johnny as he said he was tired of skating to it by Nationals. Sorry but when a skater is played six pieces of music by his coach/choreographer and choses the one that he liked the best, that's not personal. When a skater listens to a song and says "that song makes me think of the time I climbed into my mom's lap and just felt her arms around me, that is personal. Again, just my opinion.

Justathoughtabl
07-24-2011, 03:23 AM
This is just my opinion, but when I think of personal, I think of skaters chosing music that tells a story that is close to them (losing a parent to cancer, finding or losing love, discovering who they are etc.). There are skaters who will skate to music but have no idea what the music means or the story behind it and there are other skaters who really try to relate to the music and tell the story. Since we were talking about Johnny, his Love is War free skate told the story of his broken romance, his Fallen Angel routine told the story of how he rose up from being knocked down to come back and fight again. CoN was created by Marina and you can tell by its failure that it was not a routine that was personal to Johnny as he said he was tired of skating to it by Nationals. Sorry but when a skater is played six pieces of music by his coach/choreographer and choses the one that he liked the best, that's not personal. When a skater listens to a song and says "that song makes me think of the time I climbed into my mom's lap and just felt her arms around me, that is personal. Again, just my opinion.

Yes, and just to add to that, he skated to Unchained Melody while in a long distance relationship; All in Love is Fair after the breakup; Feeling Good after he got over the break up (just a guess on that one-- or maybe he just liked the song); My Way is presumably about his individuality (the lyrics really fit); the Piaf "Non, Je Ne Regrette Rien" is again about his refusal to regret anything, even mistakes, in his career; Heartbroken is his feelings after the 2010 Olympics. And he said he's loved that piece of music for years. Many of his programs are very, very personal. The Gaga thing was a request from NY Fashion week. That's how it started. He does sometimes just skate to music that he really loves, like Gaga, Dr. Zhivago, etc. It's usually a very personal choice, rather than a recommendation by a coach or choreographer. By the same token, he designs his costumes (like them or not) to be a true reflection of the mood of the program.

overedge
07-24-2011, 06:01 AM
Sorry but when a skater is played six pieces of music by his coach/choreographer and choses the one that he liked the best, that's not personal. When a skater listens to a song and says "that song makes me think of the time I climbed into my mom's lap and just felt her arms around me, that is personal. Again, just my opinion.

I think you're making really artificial distinctions here. How do you know that the skater who chooses a piece of music from the ones the coach/choreographer plays for them *isn't* making that choice because that piece of music makes them think of a personal experience? And isn't it possible that the coach/choreographer may be selecting certain pieces of music because they know something that happened to or affected the skater, and thinks the skater might want to express that in their program?

Sorry, but I really don't see the distinction here between how Johnny chooses music and how many other skaters choose music. He is certainly not the first skater to skate to a song that they felt expressed something that happened to them or that they were feeling, or to tell a story through their choice of music. I would even be willing to bet that when he was younger he skated to music that his coach or choreographer chose for him.

os168
07-24-2011, 10:19 AM
Again, I bring up Stephane Lambiel's suggestion to make the short program the more technical one and the free program the more artistic one, so skaters can show their artistry/creativity. I don't know how serious Lambiel was, but it sounded interesting to me.

I think that is a great idea. Figure skating should be about both!

luCN
07-24-2011, 10:29 AM
well,IMO Everybody can critics ISU and the system whether he can skate or not,whether he skates good or bad.so whether Johnny can do like he said,he can critics the system.

For me,at least I agree to him on two points:

1、Plushenko is just a fighter for medals.YES he has been a legend,BUT his competition pros after 2006 is just too casual.I love his skating on exhibitions,but not on competitions.if a legend just count the medals,then he surely is,but don't forget figure skating related with ART in many languages.I'm glad Plushenko and Lysacek come back,and bring much attention to figure skating,but I really hope they don't just consider the medals,and come back with something new and beautiful to the skating world...

2、all the judge system has its good and weakness,COP is too.it should improve. YES,actually Johnny got a lot from COP,without it,he'll never have chance to get the medals in the senior worlds while lack of QUAD.BUT,it doesn't mean he can't say COP did something wrong and should change.

os168
07-24-2011, 10:42 AM
Again, I bring up Stephane Lambiel's suggestion to make the short program the more technical one and the free program the more artistic one, so skaters can show their artistry/creativity. I don't know how serious Lambiel was, but it sounded interesting to me.

I think that is a great idea. Figure skating should be about both!

Ego, personal, challenges convention are all the traits of an artist makes me think Johnny is still one of the last artistic skater around, or at least genuinely cares about it beyond medal. Not to say his art will appeal to everyone, but true artist are not afraid to experiment and make fool of themselves and always put themselves on the line at risk with their work.

I consider Johnny's philosophy similar to Lee Strasberg's school of acting thought, great acting must come from a real place from within, while there's also the Laurence Olivier's school of thought, which is theatrical, grand, and 'act' better than what audience are already expecting which many seems to have followed, afterall, the audience is the judges, and it is them who they are trying to appeal to in order to win a medal.

To most audiences, their sense of beauty is likely to be static and ideal... the closer you are to that ideal, ie/ usually classical, they think the better the beauty. In arts however, beauty is interchangeable and constant moving and evolving. There can be splashes of beauty, the trick is to recognize it when you see it, and even ugliness can be beauty if it has something valid to say.

I am not sure whether Johnny's programs truly fulfills the artistic sense of beauty, but it is nice to see him at least try.

equatorial
07-25-2011, 10:25 AM
Can we just have something like a Landfill forum for those topics that are beyond the pale even in the Trash Can? Like "Oksana Grishuk is an innocent victim of a vast conspiracy", or "JW complains about the sad state of FS under COP", or "Yu-Na levitates and works miracles in the Korean countryside"?

natalia65
07-25-2011, 11:13 AM
So one assumes that JW is LGOI. ;) Two, at least. ;)

VALuvsMKwan
07-25-2011, 02:19 PM
Can we just have something like a Landfill forum for those topics that are beyond the pale even in the Trash Can? Like ..."Yu-Na levitates and works miracles in the Korean countryside"?

SHE DOESN'T? :eek: HERETIC! BE BURNED!!!!! :mad:

WildRose
07-25-2011, 06:52 PM
Can we just have something like a Landfill forum for those topics that are beyond the pale even in the Trash Can? Like "Oksana Grishuk is an innocent victim of a vast conspiracy", or "JW complains about the sad state of FS under COP", or "Yu-Na levitates and works miracles in the Korean countryside"?

Great idea. A place of their own where reality challenged uberfans can make outrageous statements and the rest of us can just ignore them.

Kasey
07-25-2011, 07:06 PM
It seems that my particular ignore feature works on just about anyone, in any forum. Just sayin'....

REO
07-25-2011, 07:51 PM
Great idea. A place of their own where reality challenged uberfans can make outrageous statements and the rest of us can just ignore them.

Fine. Just take the fun out of the forum. :lol:
Kasey is right. Simply stay out of topics that make you crazy or bored.

julieann
07-25-2011, 08:38 PM
Plushenko is just a fighter for medals.

Everyone who goes out on the ice is fighting for medals, trying to get a personal best score, winning money, gaining points whatever....

You may not like his style but Plushenko is no different then other skaters in that regard. No one goes to a competition wanting 7th place in lieu of a medal just to be called an artist. Unless they are a skater who would have never medaled in the first place.

Justathoughtabl
07-25-2011, 08:46 PM
Great idea. A place of their own where reality challenged uberfans can make outrageous statements and the rest of us can just ignore them.

Reality-challenged, or just having an opinion that's different than yours?

edonice
07-26-2011, 03:54 AM
I hope that in future interviews Johnny can be more specific about the changes he wants to see in the way skating is judged. Itís clear that heís not thrilled with how it is right now, but if he can make specific and realistic suggestions, it can help further the conversation on how IJS is evolving.
Has he been more articulate in the past? There have definitely been times when Johnny has responded really thoughtfully about skating.