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View Full Version : Lady Gaga on Ice declaim against ISU:they make figure skating losing its beauty



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Margaret
07-22-2011, 07:51 PM
Everybody doesn't have to like him and there's nothing wrong with that.
But saying that a person, whose skating has been described as "liquid gold" or "athletically graceful beyond belief" by figure skating experts, doesn't know anything about beauty in skating is just mean spirited.
By the way, I'm all for IJS and I don't think that it impossible to deliver beauty and artistry under IJS. After all, "The Swan" was created in COP era and it is considered his signature piece.

I don't see a problem with ego centered numbers. Skating is an individual and highly competitive sport and everybody says "look at me" when stepping to the ice.

All in all, Johnny Weir is a polarizing character, news at ten.

overedge
07-22-2011, 09:28 PM
But saying that a person, whose skating has been described as "liquid gold" or "athletically graceful beyond belief" by figure skating experts

Source?

BittyBug
07-22-2011, 09:29 PM
Dick Button said that second quote. Not sure who said the first.

ETA: Here's your source (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ttNzEwPMLM) for the 2nd quote, at 3:15.

Justathoughtabl
07-23-2011, 03:16 AM
Source?

Dick Button, Marshall's 2006.I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link directly to the YouTube here. Dick Button has had a lot of nice things to say about Johnny's skating over the years, and he specifically focused on the beauty and grace.

AndyWarhol
07-23-2011, 03:22 AM
Ahg, CoP has introduced us to the ugliest positions.

BigB08822
07-23-2011, 03:32 AM
Weir can wait for the COP to make a million changes and he will never win because he never takes advantage of the most basic point getting opportunities and he skates around like a zombie. His skating was once beautiful but he hasn't had that in a VERY long time, probably since 2003 or 2004.

Wyliefan
07-23-2011, 04:06 AM
I don't think anyone's saying that Johnny's not talented. The point was that some of us think that Lady Gaga's act is anything but beautiful, and don't know why anyone would want to be compared to it.

REO
07-23-2011, 04:26 AM
Weir can wait for the COP to make a million changes and he will never win because he never takes advantage of the most basic point getting opportunities and he skates around like a zombie. His skating was once beautiful but he hasn't had that in a VERY long time, probably since 2003 or 2004.

Which is odd because he didn't win his first US Championship till '04. :D

REO
07-23-2011, 04:42 AM
I don't think anyone's saying that Johnny's not talented. The point was that some of us think that Lady Gaga's act is anything but beautiful, and don't know why anyone would want to be compared to it.

This is just a matter of taste though. Somebody must like it. The woman sells a wad of records. His Gaga bits were only for exhibitions. Pure entertainment, not for points. And the fans screech loud enough when he performs them. ;)

Japanfan
07-23-2011, 06:41 AM
But what COP has done, at least from my viewpoint, is vastly reduced the variety that we used to see in skating. For example, back in the day we usually only saw Bielmann spins from people who could do them well. Now just about every lady is including them, even if it's an obvious struggle, because it's a way to get more points.


There was an equal lack of variety under 6.0 among programs that were generally more empty. Then, as now, there were many generic and mediocre cookie-cutter programs, with the exceptions standing out as the ones that were remembered.




Or consider footwork - to get the higher levels skaters need to use the full dimension of space or some b.s. like that, so we see skaters bobbing up and down with no relation to the music in an effort to get to a higher level, whereas before, that type of motion would usually have only been seen if it was inspired by the music. So today it seems very :blah: whereas before it would have stood out.


They may not have bobbed up and down so much, but there was plenty of simple footwork that had little to do with the music. IIRC only one footwork sequence will be counted as an element next season? That gives skaters extra freedom to be really creative in the non-scoring footwork.

If a skater is musical or inspired by music, CoP won't inhibit it. CoP is just a frame and skaters will find ways to be creative it within - especially those who grew up skating under the system. Creativity is an inner drive and an innate sensibility. You can't prevent it from being expressed. There is no less - or no more - of it than there was under the old system. Some beautiful and exquisite programs have been created under CoP (Virtue/Moir, Chan, Takahashi, Kim, and Pang/Tong, to name just a few.



Under the new system we're seeing much better quality step sequences and spins across the board, and cheating of jumps/poor flow out is no longer considered acceptable. It used to be that even world medalists could get away with crappy spins and simple stroking between elements. When I go back and watch older videos now, I'm usually disappointed in what I see. (And the videos that made it to onto Youtube are generally of the better performances.) There was a lot of posing, especially in the slow part in the middle (which was generally designed for skaters to catch their breath), unrelated musical selections were spliced together with no unifying concept, poor skating skills, etc. Our expectations are much higher today.

The freedom to be creative did not lead, overall, to great creativity and high standards back in the day, because people could win without it. We should probably find a way to liberalize COP, but IMO we shouldn't romanticize the reality of how people used (or in fact didn't use) the freedom that 6.0 gave them. In other words, I feel that as we tweak the new system, we should make sure to retain the benefits that COP has brought.

ITA. And one thing I like better about CoP is the room for movement in the LP. There is a lot more motivation for a skater to skate the LP well in absence of the top three 6.0 advantage. And I find the LP much more exciting now.

BigB08822
07-23-2011, 07:11 AM
Which is odd because he didn't win his first US Championship till '04. :D

I kind of threw the dates out there but either way, whether he won a US title or not is really irrelevant to my opinion of his skating. Only my opinion, of course.

judiz
07-23-2011, 02:38 PM
He has had plenty of pure ego numbers as well. My Way, the Jesus number, etc. It is supposed to be about entertaining the audience, not about hey look at me, I'm so special.


Actually one of the things I love about Johnny's skating is that the music he choses is personal. I wish more skaters had the guts to do that both in exhibition and in competition.

overedge
07-23-2011, 09:01 PM
Actually one of the things I love about Johnny's skating is that the music he choses is personal. I wish more skaters had the guts to do that both in exhibition and in competition.

Skaters choose music that is "personal" to them all the time. Johnny is hardly the only skater to do this.

judiz
07-23-2011, 09:12 PM
Skaters choose music that is "personal" to them all the time. Johnny is hardly the only skater to do this..
From what I can recall, most skaters will say in interviews that they chose music they liked or from their favorite movie or in some cases, allowed their choreographer to chose the music for them.

overedge
07-24-2011, 01:36 AM
.
From what I can recall, most skaters will say in interviews that they chose music they liked or from their favorite movie

So how is this not "personal"?