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Buzz
07-26-2011, 07:43 PM
It's too Mills and Boon. Too cheesy. Too easy. I would rather see him be the son of a fisherman's daughter than yet another secret Targaryen. It is much better for him (to me that is.. :D ) to be begotten from one of the common folk than one of the elite, perfect, ultra shiny, ultra white Targayens. Keep in mind please you are talking to the woman who has ever read one pure romance novel in her life and that was about 25 years ago.

Sorry Hedwig... :blocjudge

Hedwig
07-26-2011, 08:19 PM
I can understand your reasoning but I think you are then putting a lot of stuff into this happening that are just not there (IMO ;) )
Jon is not an ultra-pure superman but a guy with mistakes and flaws (even though in the last book he was a bit supermanish at times I admit)
His way was not: "Oh hey, you are a bastard prince by the way" but it was over obstacles and envy (him envying Robb) and fighting with himself over what is right.

And then there is also the story arc that is still missing. We do get some hints from time to time why the war started - it was after kidnapping Lyanna we heard first - but then we also learned from so many different sources that Rheagar must have been an exceptional man.
Hardly one to kidnap and rape someone like Lyanna.
He even got praise from Ned - who if it was really kidnap and rape was very unlikely to think highly of Rheagar.
There is still a lot missing in this very important story arc which in my opinion needs to be filled to not leave a hole in the series.
If GRRM never explains all of this further I would feel very cheated indeed.
R+L=J is something that ties the ends very nicely and I like concise and logical books...

Buzz
07-27-2011, 02:40 AM
More god news for George Martin. :)
http://www.thenational.ae/arts-culture/books/dance-with-dragons-fifth-ice-and-fire-book-released

Buzz
07-28-2011, 08:50 PM
George Martin did another question and answer period with fans. Makes for very interesting reading. :respec:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/28/george-r-r-martin-google-talk_n_912325.html

Satellitegirl
07-28-2011, 08:57 PM
The special in HBO's store yesterday was a signed copy of Dance with Dragons. I was 6 hrs late getting the email though, and they were all gone when I saw it :( .

uyeahu
07-29-2011, 12:25 AM
I just finished listening to the book on tape. I've got so much work that I don't have time to read but I couldn't wait so I listened while I worked. I'm sure I missed a lot and I'll probably never get the silly voices of the narrator out of my head, but I enjoyed it nonetheless. Once things settle down I'm definitely going back and reading the hard copy.

rfisher
07-29-2011, 12:31 AM
I can understand your reasoning but I think you are then putting a lot of stuff into this happening that are just not there (IMO ;) )
Jon is not an ultra-pure superman but a guy with mistakes and flaws (even though in the last book he was a bit supermanish at times I admit)
His way was not: "Oh hey, you are a bastard prince by the way" but it was over obstacles and envy (him envying Robb) and fighting with himself over what is right.

And then there is also the story arc that is still missing. We do get some hints from time to time why the war started - it was after kidnapping Lyanna we heard first - but then we also learned from so many different sources that Rheagar must have been an exceptional man.
Hardly one to kidnap and rape someone like Lyanna.
He even got praise from Ned - who if it was really kidnap and rape was very unlikely to think highly of Rheagar.
There is still a lot missing in this very important story arc which in my opinion needs to be filled to not leave a hole in the series.
If GRRM never explains all of this further I would feel very cheated indeed.
R+L=J is something that ties the ends very nicely and I like concise and logical books...

I've only finished the first book, but unless it's explained elsewhere, Lyanna died in a pool of blood (likely if she'd given birth) and made Ned promise something (protect her son?) I can totally see that Jon would fit both those plot points. The timing is right, he'd have the "look of the Starks" from his mother, and those two key points would certainly fit. Unless there is a different explanation in the subsequent books. I've wondered each time Ned "remembers" her how she died and what he promised. He refuses to discuss the mother and Jon ponders how honorable Ned could have a bastard child. Which means all that logic is probably totally wrong. :lol:

Buzz
07-29-2011, 01:17 PM
What can I say? Sometimes I just like to be different. The whole R+L=J just does not sit well with me at all and to besides things are not always what they appear in Martin's books. Since you have not read the other novels yet I will say little except you should catch up with the other books. I think you will like those as well. :)

Evilynn
07-29-2011, 03:27 PM
Of course there is always my old crackpot theory that there was indeed a change of babies but that the baby whose head was smashed was Ashara´s baby - what would explain her suicide a lot better than just her brother dead and Ned´s marriage if she consented to something like that - but now my fair Ashara (seriously, I thought fair in English meant blondish) has dark hair, and her (allegedly stillborn) baby was allegedly a girl, so we need another Targaryen lookalike baby that Varys just found. Too much coincidence.

I always thought Ashara Dayne was fair haired as well, I seem to remember the Shy Wolf dancing with a fair girl with purple eyes at the Harrenhal tourney, but I suppose maybe GRRM meant "fair" as in "pretty" and I just assumed fair as in blonde because of the purple eyes?


Why don't you like this?

I think it is a great story arch - explaining so much (like why Ned couldn't tell Catelyn about Jon and why Lyanna has such a big role in these books even though she never actually featured in them) and would also enable Jon to be one of the three heads.

...and could explain his fixation with Arya. :shuffle: (upon rereading all books it seems sort of set up for a, uh, Targaryenesque twist, although if they're only cousins I suppose that'll be easier to swallow for most readers).

I liked ADWD a lot more than AFFC, although I found the first half being parallel to AFFC and then the second continuing all time lines a bit clunky, and I still think books 1-3 are better. I'm not enamoured with the Aegon-Ex-Machina twist (it seemed to come out of the blue, and there's the Mummer's Dragon thing, although it could mean he's just Varys's dragon, of course), but I'm not convinced he's legit yet. I've read some theories that says he could be the Cheesemonger's kid, since his wife was silver haired and purple eyed, she might've been a Blackfyre. It'd explain why Illyrio is so fond of the kid as well... A lot of the clunkiness might resolve nicely in the latter books, so it's a bit difficult to judge how elegant GRRM's solutions are yet. He's one of those Gardener-type writers too, so I'm not entirely sure he's sure himself all the time. :lol:

I'm convinced no one important apart from Kevan died. If Ramsay had killed Stannis I'm sure he would've found Theon and Jeyne again, if nothing else. I'm equally convinced Jon'll either be preserved by the wall, Maester Aemon style or (more likely) be undeaded by Mel. Bit of a bummer when you're convinced someone won't disappear after being stabbed to death just because there are so many undead people running around. :P I'm equally sure Jamie won't be killed off page (just yet, anyway), because I think there's a nice pay off in Brienne having to choose between two vows + there was a prophetic dream Bran had way back that seemed to contain Jaime, The Hound and a headless Mountain.

I just hope it doesn't take 6 years to get the next one...

rfisher
07-29-2011, 03:38 PM
I just hope it doesn't take 6 years to get the next one...

It depends on how much money he wants from HBO. :lol: They say the length of the TV committment depends on him. There are 4 books so that equates with 4 seasons at which point it either ends or there's a new book. :lol:

Hedwig
07-29-2011, 04:51 PM
To be honest, I wouldn't mind if it takes another six years and then another six years again if I could only be sure that he manages it before something happens to him.
I'd rather he takes his time and the books are great than getting something half-cooked. And a book with so many strings to tie cannot be easy to write.

I also like to have the time to digest the next book properly and read and reread it and the series and to form some new theories.

The parallel to Harry Potter was that in the break between book 4 and 5 the fandom really started and the greatest fanfics of all the time were written and the most interesting theories emerged...book 6 and 7 came much to quick for me. :lol: I think I need my sweet time to properly obsess over each book for some years before I am even ready for the next one.
Maybe that is crazy, it seems a bit like it but there it is. :P

rfisher
07-29-2011, 05:47 PM
And most of the theories for HP were totally wrong. :lol: But, I know what you mean. You want the next book to confirm those theories, but you don't want them destroyed or even sadder, for them to end. The GRRM series has as long, long span and while fans want to know what's going to happen next and get frustrated with the wait, they also don't want the inevitable end to occur. And they don't want that end to be written by somebody else.

Hedwig
07-29-2011, 06:20 PM
Exactly. It is too much to want at the same time and contradicting it.

Of course most theories must be wrong as must were contradicting itself. But I was actually surprised how much was right even as far back as after book 4 (re HP).
Actually, that is one of the reasons, I try not to read ASoIaF forums as I feel that some surprises in HP were sort of spoilt for me as they were guessed by other readers before.

Therefore, I try now mostly to form my own theories and not read too much about what other people think (except here ;) ) so that won't happen again.
I like to be surprised in books. :) And so far GRRM has not disappointed me.

Buzz
08-01-2011, 01:02 AM
Martin is #1 on the hardcover fiction list, #3 on the NYTimes combined print and e-book list, but #9 on the e-book list. :( Glad to see all his years of work is paying off. No fictional book or series of books have gotten me this excited about reading in a looooong time.

Buzz
08-09-2011, 01:46 AM
This is one of the funniest lines yet written to describe ADWD. Doesn't matter if you agree with him or not. I could not help but chuckle a bit. LOL


For a thousand or so pages almost nothing happens and then we get a bunch of cliffhangers.

And this titbit gets two thumbs up from me! :hat1:


Pretty much everything that happened in the north of Westeros in Dance with Dragons was excellent. If the book had been entirely at The Wall and at Winterfell, following Theon and Jon Snow and Davos and Stannis, it would have been a truly terrific book.

http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/blog/2011/08/08/review-a-dance-with-dragons-by-george-r-r-martin/