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dbell1
07-23-2011, 04:00 AM
Ah ? There is a Light then ? ;)

It's Martin. Unless there's a head detached from a body or a pillow and a pyre, there's always light. :lol:

sweetsparky
07-24-2011, 10:08 PM
Well I finished, took me some time more that I though, but my weekend proposed non stop reading was stopped cause I had to attend a funeral, and trough work days I could just read some chapters.

I really liked the book, certainly more than Feast although not so much as the three first.

My fav part was the North (remembers!) chapters, Jon, Davos and Theon. Really surprised with Lord Manderly :D

I have a strange sensation about Dany/Slaverīs Bay chapters, I felt very frustrated by the direction of the story, but really liked Barristan chapters, felt bad for Quentyn (seriously the Martell should change their motto to "Epic Fail", what a disaster :( ) and was really annoyed with all the Daario obsession, but overall it was very interesting and kind of refreshing to present a story of how sometimes bad decisions, even if doing with the best intention, cannot be fixed.

My only dissatisfaction was Jaime chapter cause after five years Brienne (or who seems Brienne) appears and we donīt get any explanation but more cliffhanger.

Cersei walk of shame was kind of disgusting, and considering all the Theon chapters level of :yikes: thatīs something to say.

BTW no way Jon is dead.

No way King Lobster Stannis has been killed off page.

Iīm starting to believe Aegon could be the true thing just because it seems so apparent that he should be fake (or at least not Aegon, even if a real Targaryen, like some Blackfire branch offspring).

MarieM
07-25-2011, 08:45 AM
It's Martin. Unless there's a head detached from a body or a pillow and a pyre, there's always light. :lol:

Or it's worse. You know him. He's gonna kill them all :(

Buzz
07-25-2011, 12:56 PM
As long as Daenerys and Melisandre are among the casualities I will be statisfied. I am on the fence about Aegon, but I am still in serious doubt that he is the real thing. I want Stannis and Jon to be still alive because they are amoung my favourite characters but if Jon does die let him please stay dead however if he continues in the story let it be because he survives. No more of this un-dead stuff south of the Wall. LOL Asha is my favourite POV chapters in the book along with Davos, and Theon. I did enjoy Jon up until his stabbing. :yikes:

Hedwig
07-25-2011, 01:48 PM
Really - I never even had the idea that Aegon wasn't the real Aegon.
Why do you all think so?

It makes much sense to me that a babe can be smuggled out of the city before the attack.

Buzz
07-25-2011, 09:40 PM
It does but I remember something about a Murmurer's dragon. Also it just seems like if Varys will go through the trouble of creating all that trouble and chaos to make it easier for "Aegon" to assend the throne, perhaps he would put someone he chooses in the throne and not necessarily the real Aegon. But of course I could be wrong and we will have to see. It is only another five years or so. But knowing Martin and his nack for not giving answers perhaps our wait is as long as ten year. hehehehe :P

Verbalgirl77
07-26-2011, 04:23 AM
Really - I never even had the idea that Aegon wasn't the real Aegon.
Why do you all think so?

It makes much sense to me that a babe can be smuggled out of the city before the attack.

From the cloth mummer's dragon that made an appearance in Dany's visions from the House of the Undying. Basically, if you assume that all of the things Dany saw have some relevance, the cloth mummer's dragon has to mean something. Aegon is probably the first logical candidate for that that's appeared so far in the books.

sweetsparky
07-26-2011, 07:44 AM
Exactly, the mummerīs dragon (that I understood in the sense of mummery as a played not real thing) vision, and the switching babies at the Wall, and also the historical examples (fake Dimitri and fakes Louis XVII) and, above all, that in an interview Martin being asked about Rhaegarīs babies confirmed just that Rhaenys was dead, while about Aegon he says something like it seemed so, made me always suspect that an alleged Aegon would pop up somewhere.

But after A Dance Iīve more doubts because with Varys implication, and as he was a real mummer, the vision could just be literal, as Aegon would be not a mummer/fake dragon but the (real) dragon of the mummer (Varys). And then is the Bond Villain speech Varys does while killing Kevan.

My doubts stands not so match because I donīt think possible a change, but because I donīt believe the last moment switching told by Aegon. Kevan thinks how dead Aegon was unrecognizable but he was fair haired, what I guess means fair in Targaryen fashion, not just blonde. If we were in Lys surely Varys could have found a silver haired baby in a rush, but at Bottom Flea? Then of course fair=blonde and thatīs all.

Of course there is always my old crackpot theory that there was indeed a change of babies but that the baby whose head was smashed was Asharaīs baby - what would explain her suicide a lot better than just her brother dead and Nedīs marriage if she consented to something like that - but now my fair Ashara (seriously, I thought fair in English meant blondish) has dark hair, and her (allegedly stillborn) baby was allegedly a girl, so we need another Targaryen lookalike baby that Varys just found. Too much coincidence.

So I always thought a fake Aegon would appear but now Iīve some doubts this Aegon could be real.

Hedwig
07-26-2011, 09:27 AM
sweetsparky, I have been confused by the word "fair" as well.
For English native speakers - is my theory true that "fair" meant "pretty" in old English but has now progressed to "blonde"?

About Varys - there is always the theory that he is a Targaryen too. He is always described as bald - because he wants to hide his silver blonde hair? - and he name -Varys - is Targaryenesque.
It would also give another explanation why he wants a Targaryen on the throne.

MarieM
07-26-2011, 10:13 AM
My theory is that the real Aegon is Jon Snow. No ?

Verbalgirl77
07-26-2011, 12:05 PM
My theory is that the real Aegon is Jon Snow. No ?

In the sense that he's the child of Rhaegar and Elia? Not in that regard, he definitely has the looks of a Stark according to pretty much everyone. He's said to resemble Ned and Arya and Arya is supposed to take after Lyanna, so...

Based on ADWD, Elia definitely had two children including Aegon before it was determined that she might not survive a third pregnancy. That's when you get into the three-heads of the dragon prophecy with Rhaegar and start to speculate how Rhaegar's pursuit of Lyanna was affected by that.

Hedwig
07-26-2011, 01:50 PM
I think it is pretty much established at this point that Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna.

MarieM
07-26-2011, 02:02 PM
I think it is pretty much established at this point that Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna.
Ah. I knew he was a Targaryen but Lyanna's ? Wasn't she dead in a short time, giving her no time to have a baby ?

Buzz
07-26-2011, 03:49 PM
I think it is pretty much established at this point that Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna.

I will continue to cling to the hope that this is NOT true. :slinkaway

Hedwig
07-26-2011, 05:25 PM
I will continue to cling to the hope that this is NOT true. :slinkaway

Why don't you like this?

I think it is a great story arch - explaining so much (like why Ned couldn't tell Catelyn about Jon and why Lyanna has such a big role in these books even though she never actually featured in them) and would also enable Jon to be one of the three heads.