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shan
07-19-2011, 03:47 AM
no more blade grabbing, period. blade grabbing is fugly on death spirals and butt ugly on 95% of single skaters who drop their legs rather than extend the leg towards the hand that grabs the blades. most can't do a blade grab spin half as beautiful as rory flack's anyway. and maybe without blade grabs there would be an end to the epidemic of gloves.

Can we limit pairs to 1 lift that includes a blade grab?

skfan
07-19-2011, 04:03 AM
Can we limit pairs to 1 lift that includes a blade grab?

i wish it were up to me :D in my dream world LOL i personally don't find blade grabs in lifts attractive for pairs or dance couples.

a skater can angle his or her arm AS IF he/she were going to grab the blade but refrain from actually grabbing--then the wrist/ hand/arm achieves a more aesthetic line/position. i've seen this with several skaters that either go to grab blade and 'missed' or intentionally struck such a (finger perilous) pose.


in general i prefer moves performed without 'assistance'--blade grabs are a form of assistance, as are spirals with the leg being held up by the arm. bielmanns and other blade grab spins, including usually hideous I spins, are rarely performed well enough to be more beautiful than eyesore IMO.

if one had the strength and flexibility, one can achieve the grace of a blade grab position without actually grabbing the blade, no?

still, it takes all opinions to make a world--while i'm celebrating the decreased number of dog-at-hydrant crotch-flashing ladies spirals others are campaigning for a return of the spiral in short programs. ;) i would be ok with spirals briefly held (minimum time: 2 sec, maximum time: not so long that it jars with the music) and no assistance from grabbing the leg --but i'm happy for the demise of the _old rules_.

TheIronLady
07-19-2011, 04:19 AM
Judges should be encouraged to ... vary PCS components

Have you read the criteria under each PCS? It would be a semantic feat to distinguish meaningful differences betrween the criteria under CH, IN, & PE. Even the criteria under SS overlaps slightly with the others. We need to rewrite the criteria.

gkelly
07-19-2011, 11:56 AM
Have you read the criteria under each PCS? It would be a semantic feat to distinguish meaningful differences betrween the criteria under CH, IN, & PE. Even the criteria under SS overlaps slightly with the others. We need to rewrite the criteria.

So what would be some good changes in the way they're written?

misskarne
07-19-2011, 01:08 PM
Get rid of axel requirement in the sp, the 3 required jumps should be: combo, steps into toe jump, and steps into edge jump


Why do you want to get rid of the axel?

I think the "double axel" option should be got rid of in the men's SP, the required element should be a triple. We are long past the days of double axels being the norm.

Besides, if you made the rule an edge jump, most skaters would do an axel anyway, because it's worth more points!

Rex
07-19-2011, 02:20 PM
Or Nessun Dorma?

:). ANYTHING that the judges feel has been overused.

olympic
07-19-2011, 02:38 PM
I love the idea of a 2 pt. bonus for combos [but keep the limitations in place, so skaters don't go crazy with it]. This should be goal #1 for the ISU. CoP is supposed to reward jumps with difficult entries. Then, what is a more difficult entry to a jump than another jump???

Also love the idea of giving point values to walleys, toe walleys, and inside axels to allow skaters a greater variety of jumps to choose from.

gkelly
07-19-2011, 03:32 PM
I think the "double axel" option should be got rid of in the men's SP, the required element should be a triple. We are long past the days of double axels being the norm.

You do realize that there are senior men who cannot do all the triples, the triple axel being the most likely one missing, right? Check out some senior B events and lower groups at championships.

And that occasionally even an otherwise medalworthy skater with top-quality skating and all the other triples plus a quadruple jump has a particular problem with the triple axel, whether rooted in technique, injury, or mental block about the forward takeoff.

Triple axel may be the norm at level expected on the Grand Prix or Worlds top 24, but there are sometimes exceptions at that level, and the same rules also need to apply to all senior-level competitions, which includes every man who is good enough to represent his country internationally and is older than 19.

DORISPULASKI
07-19-2011, 03:56 PM
For quite a while, Patrick Chan's 3A was iffy. Should he have been prohibited from senior competition by that?

Doesn't seem right.

Macassar88
07-19-2011, 03:59 PM
Why do you want to get rid of the axel?

I think the "double axel" option should be got rid of in the men's SP, the required element should be a triple. We are long past the days of double axels being the norm.

Besides, if you made the rule an edge jump, most skaters would do an axel anyway, because it's worth more points!

I agree that the men should have to do a triple axel.
But for the edge jump, I think they would probably do a salchow or loop if they didn't need to do an axel as both of those give you more points.

aliceanne
07-19-2011, 06:18 PM
For quite a while, Patrick Chan's 3A was iffy. Should he have been prohibited from senior competition by that?

Doesn't seem right.

Adam Rippon as well.

Cloudy_Gumdrops
07-19-2011, 08:08 PM
Adam Rippon as well.

Let's not forgot Joubert splatting a double axel of all things as well. He'd long been an established senior at that point.

gkelly
07-19-2011, 08:48 PM
Anyone can splat on any jump at any time if one little thing goes wrong with technique, concentration, ice surface, etc.

But sometimes a skater consistently never masters a certain jump, or has it for a while and then loses consistency to the point that they choose not to include that jump in their programs.

I'm thinking more of Stephane Lambiel often opting to do double instead of triple axels a couple years ago, while still including quads.

TheIronLady
07-19-2011, 08:48 PM
:). ANYTHING that the judges feel has been overused.

Maybe orchestration should be banned. All programs must be performed to a single instrument.

aliceanne
07-19-2011, 08:53 PM
Maybe orchestration should be banned. All programs must be performed to a single instrument.

Maybe they should have to accompany themselves with said instrument while they skate :lol: