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View Full Version : If you could have a rule created, what would it be.



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A.H.Black
07-15-2011, 05:53 AM
Here's my contribution.

For the Free Program -

- Each skater can do one element of their choosing (anything; spin, jump, move in the field etc). The element must be of a low difficulty level - a single jump, a scratch spin, an Ina Bauer etc. The element will be something that the skater does wonderfully well (Natalie Kreig's scratch spin, Paul Wylie's Ina Bauer, Michelle Kwan's spiral, Brian Boitano's spread eagle).

- This element will get a small amount of points for technical merit.

- This element will get a very large amount of points for performance - up to a +8 points from the judges.

- The amount of points for performance will be overseen closely. A judge may not give a +8 points more than once in a season to any skater - or something like that.

My reasoning is that this kind of element will add some originality to the programs by allowing each skater to do something that they do best - something that isn't very hard but something that makes their individual performance remarkable and distinct from the other performances. It would allow for some of the creativity that many feel is missing in the current judging system.

edonice
07-15-2011, 06:05 AM
At least in the US, I want a rule about selecting world team members. The selection committee should more heavily factor in performance that year. As it is, the skaters most likely to make worlds are holding back their best performances so they can peak a month later, which means that they're sometimes not as good as the skaters going lights out just to make a wild shot at the world team. The current system doesn't favor our best skaters.

And while we're at it, I'm definitely in favor of a rule about footwork sequences. Speed of the footwork sequence should be a major, major factor. It's annoying to watch all these slow twisty turny progressions down the ice. Before PCS, footwork sequences flew.

gkelly
07-15-2011, 06:39 AM
Actually, I don't think it's a bad idea to have some sort of limit, to make sure skaters don't hurt themselves and because beyond a certain point, a program marred by so many falls just doesn't have much merit anymore, athletically or artistically.

One of the first elite competitions I attended live was the 1994 Olympics. One of the lower-ranked skaters (yes, I do remember who it was) fell four times IIRC during his free program. By the third and fourth fall he looked pretty discouraged as he got back to his feet, as if he were considering giving up, but the crowd applauded encouragingly and he continued skating to the end of the program. Only he knew if he was injured, but his hesitance looked more like discouragement to me. Assuming that to be the case, I would guess that he would rather look back on his Olympic experience as one in which he bravely struggled on to the end than as one in which he quit from embarrassment or was disqualified from continuing by the referee on account of too many falls. Of course I can't read his mind.

But as a spectator, it was more satisfying to watch him find the fortitude to continue in the face of adversity than to watch him quit or be removed from the ice. There are other kinds of human dramas and triumphs to appreciate in competition besides the quest for a perfect performance.

I recall several years ago watching a skater in a summer club competition fall on triple jumps and double axels seven times in a senior ladies program. I don't know how much it hurt or if any damage was done or how she felt about the experience. But I'm pretty sure that later that same season was the first time she qualified to compete at Nationals at the senior level (not sure if she'd ever done so at lower levels).

So possibly her goal for that competition was to go for the rotation on every jump and not double out? Trying and failing multiple times in the same program may have been a necessary step in the process of trying every time and succeeding more often than not later in the season?

That process seems to be similar to what Patrick Chan went through this past season. Would he have been able to stand up on all the quads and triple axels at Worlds if he had left some of them out earlier in the season?

I've also seen a lower-level skater in a club competition try to finish a program with multiple falls and obvious pain and insecurity and later hear she had broken her ankle during the program. That was an occasion where it seemed the better part of valor would have been to quit in the middle.

Johnny Weir came to that conclusion at 2003 Nationals after only two falls.

If the purpose is to protect skaters from injury, I think the important thing is for coaches and parents to instill in their skaters the recognition that no one competition is more important than long-term health and that there's no shame in withdrawing if injured.

But I wouldn't leave it up to the referee or the rules to decide in advance that a skater needs to withdraw/be disqualified just because of a certain number of falls. Falling is part of learning to skate, part of training difficult jumps. Most falls don't cause injuries -- probably most don't even really hurt. The skater inside his or her own body is in a much better position to know whether it hurts, or worse, than a rulebook or in most cases an observer.

I can think of quite a number of elite skating performances with three falls that had plenty of athletic and/or artistic content in the other 4 minutes of the program and even won medals.

RumbleFish
07-15-2011, 06:41 AM
I want to see the IJS putting caps on amount of time skaters spend doing step sequences.

Too many skaters spent too much time trying to achieve all the level requirements. I have never tried counting, but I'm quite sure that in some extreme cases, skaters spend up to 45 seconds performing their step sequences. This is a lot of time, especially in SPs.

IMO, limiting amount of time, let's say to 15 seconds, may bring following benefits.

1. Let skaters with best abilities stand out. With limited time to work with, only best skaters will be able to incorporate all the requirements for difficult turns and steps in their sequences while skating fast enough across the ice to finish their sequences in time.

2. It will prevent slow and laborious sequences travelling all over the rink like we have today. Under current rules, skaters often deviate far from defined shapes of straight, circular, or serpentine lines.

3. Skaters will have more time to display choreography. Some skaters will get up to 30 seconds of free time while doing same number of elements. Let them bring something creative and have them engage with the audience more.

4. Bring back fast and powerful step sequences of the old days. Best skaters should be able to perform sequences just as powerful while meeting demands of IJS such as rockers and counters turns.

To summarize, it will let the best skaters stand out more and bring back excitment to step sequences.

skatefan
07-15-2011, 02:35 PM
I would like to alter the current rule regarding only repeating two triples to allow 3T to be a 'third' repeated triple provided that they are only included as the second half of a 3+3 combination (or 2A+3), for example a skater could perform 3Lz, 3LZ+3T, 3F, 3F+3T and 3S+3T, 3Lo, 3A/2A. This would allow more 3+3 combinations.

Aceon6
07-15-2011, 05:24 PM
I'd love to see the step sequences timed. You get 10 seconds for the straight line, 20 for the circular and you MUST cover the entire length of the sheet. Failure to cover is an automatic -3 GOE. The sequences would be less fussy, skaters with great edges would eat it up, and the ones who crawl would get the scores they deserve.

I'm all for the gkelly "single jumps as transitions don't count in the jump list." I'd love to see a falling leaf used that way.

gkelly
07-15-2011, 05:37 PM
Well, falling leaf is a half-revolution jump, so already it doesn't count in the jump list.

briancoogaert
07-15-2011, 05:42 PM
No frantic arm movements to get bonus !
I want a pure style with economy of moves. Give me Michelle Kwan, Dorothy Hamill or John Curry over Lysacek, Plushenko or Flatt !

A rule I really would like to change would be the combo rule.
I would give a bonus for 3/3 combos, because doing a solo 3Flip and a 3Toe/2Toe is not the same as a 3Flip/3Toe and a 2Toe ! But actually, the points are the same !

gkelly
07-15-2011, 06:00 PM
A rule I really would like to change would be the combo rule.
I would give a bonus for 3/3 combos, because doing a solo 3Flip and a 3Toe/2Toe is not the same as a 3Flip/3Toe and a 2Toe ! But actually, the points are the same !

True.

So how could the rules be written to reward this difference appropriately?

Will just giving a multiplier to the second jump in the combination take care of it?

AndyWarhol
07-15-2011, 06:07 PM
i wish there was more emphasis on positions. Just because you can hold an ugly position for three seconds shouldn't give more points over a beautiful perfectly sustained position.

DORISPULASKI
07-15-2011, 06:28 PM
What I was thinking of was that I never want to see a skater do what Joshua Farris did at US Nationals: skate what appeared to be a whole program on a broken ankle. I don't think a skater is brave to do something like that, falling or nearly falling on every jump. What they are doing is injure themselves.

If they don't stop, then the officials should stop it. If equipment is broken and the skater doesn't stop, AFAIR, the ref can stop the skate. The same should be true of a broken leg, although granted the leg is not as immediately obvious as a skatelace.

I don't think skaters hurting themselves should be encouraged. If a 3 fall rule catches the occasional 3 fall elite skater, that would not bother me either.

skfan
07-15-2011, 06:43 PM
At least in the US, I want a rule about selecting world team members. The selection committee should more heavily factor in performance that year. As it is, the skaters most likely to make worlds are holding back their best performances so they can peak a month later, which means that they're sometimes not as good as the skaters going lights out just to make a wild shot at the world team. The current system doesn't favor our best skaters.[/I]


this has been discussed a lot here and at GS. i feel if you are to go to worlds you ought to be able to put down a good performance at nationals. i don't like anything 'by committee' because with anonymous judging skating is already plenty murky and political.

if you can't put it together at nationals, why should i believe you will 'peak' at worlds? what happened to knocking it out of the ballpark on your first try, like MK used to do at skate america, like YN Kim did with her Bond Girl and Gershwin program the 2010 Oly season?

i want fairness and transparency. those aspects are far more important to me than having more worlds spots next year, or more worlds medals. i want everybody eligible to go to US nationals to have a *chance* at a worlds spot. i don't want to base going to worlds 'partially' on international assignments/ outcomes because not everybody who's earned a chance to skate at nationals will have had a reasonable shot at one of those international assignments, especially with the recent GP cutbacks.

if you are injured and can prove yourself fit before worlds, that's a different question. but that wasn't the case with abbott, rippon, nagasu, the popular 'should have gones' last season.

i respect your opinion. i understand that mine is only one opinion on the subject, but forgive me, i cannot resist getting on the soap box once every 15 times i encounter this argument :)

RobinA
07-15-2011, 07:36 PM
My rule is that skaters get a 50 point bonus for actually skating to the music instead of over it.

I second this one!

gkelly
07-15-2011, 07:38 PM
I don't think skaters hurting themselves should be encouraged. If a 3 fall rule catches the occasional 3 fall elite skater, that would not bother me either.

The problem is ...

The vast majority of the time skaters fall three times in a program, they are not injured or injuring themselves.

If a skater is injured in a fall during a program (or never should have started the program in the first place because of preexisting injury), damage may be done well before the third fall

Disqualification based on X number of falls, especially in early-season competitions, will arbitrarily dash the dreams of far more skaters who are trying to work their way up to completing more difficult content, having a slightly off day for one reason or another, in some cases combined with the bad luck to have an equipment malfunction or hit a bad piece of ice, then it will save from serious damage.

The one advantage of a specific number cutoff is that it's objective.

The disadvantage is that setting the cutoff at three is overly punitive for skaters who are actually having an otherwise decent skate. A higher number would miss too many of the rare occasions when the skater really should be stopped.

On the other hand, leaving it up to the referee to use judgment to determine from facial expression and body language when a skater should be stopped for his or her own good is too subjective and potentially subject to abuse by referees, or perceptions and accusations thereof.

DORISPULASKI
07-15-2011, 11:02 PM
Yes, that's why I was using number of falls as an objective criterion. If you like 4 falls better, all good.

Or at 3 falls, stop the program and have the ref determine whether the skater is injured.

Charge a penalty for it.