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krenseby
07-12-2011, 10:22 PM
Many people would assume that a figure skater who wins a bronze medal at the Olympics is one of the best skaters in the world, a skater who has achieved mastery in the sport.

Would it be right to assume this about Joannie Rochette? Are there aspects of her skating, whether certain jumps or spins or perhaps footwork or stroking, that are particularly outstanding and deserve to be noticed and praised by skaters, coaches, and figure skating fans?

If it would be wrong to assume that Joannie's skating is spectacular, then would it be better to simply evaluate her as an average skater who happened to win an Olympic bronze medal for arbitrary reasons?

AxelAnnie
07-12-2011, 10:24 PM
IMO - she is an outstanding skater.

Her use of upper body and arms is one of the best in the business.

I think many skaters have problems with a particular jump at a particular time.......of note, Joannie went back and re-worked her lutz so that it is true and dependable.

IMO there is very little that is average about Joannie.

triple_toe
07-12-2011, 10:44 PM
IMO, Joannie is the best jumper out there. How many other women can claim to be consistent and technically sound on all 5 triple jumps? Her bladework is also spectacular. She's very quiet and gains speed with a few strokes.

One thing she is subpar in is her back flexibility and posture- her shoulders always seem high. Compare her to Oksana Baiul, for example. To me, that restricts her freedom of movement and makes her look stiff. However, I think her programs are built to minimize that, and her transitions are INSANE. She has more intricate programs than pretty much anyone. Besides, in COP posture and line really don't count for much :blah:

Also, while her spins are centred and fast, they are nothing outstanding. Her spiral is also poor, which confuses me because her split falling leaf is amazing.

Despite her faults, I think she is one of the best skaters of the post-2006. She's certainly my favourite. It's a shame she let her nerves get to her, because she definitely had the goods to be a multiple world medallist/champion.

krenseby
07-12-2011, 10:58 PM
She has more intricate programs than pretty much anyone. Besides, in COP posture and line really don't count for much :blah:


Do you think COP should somehow be changed to reward line and posture more?

triple_toe
07-12-2011, 11:31 PM
Do you think COP should somehow be changed to reward line and posture more?

Ideally, yes I think it should. Or rather I think poor posture and line should be more harshly punished. I don't think Joannie is the most egregious example of poor posture, I think she does the best within her capabilities and usually she is not unpleasant or jarring to look at. She has fair posture, not particularly bad or good.

I'm thinking more along the lines of Rachel Flatt, Miki Ando, and Yu Na Kim from the knees down (how that hideous spiral ever got +3's, I'll never know, I can see her speed and depth of edge giving her a +1, but that's all ... her overall carriage is quite lovely though). I may be old fashioned, but I love seeing pointed toes, a stretched neck, and straight knees, it gives such an air of polish and class. You don't have to be Oksana, but you can at least look like you've heard the term "ballet" before. Unfortunately I think COP focuses so much on the minutiae and individual elements that the overall flow and look of a program, including things like posture and line, are forgotten. To bring it back to Joannie, one thing she does well is she never seems to be plodding from one element to the next, but is actually concerned with the program as a whole and making things cohesive.

museksk8r
07-13-2011, 12:06 AM
:confused: Joannie and poor posture don't even belong in the same sentence. Rochette is amazing! :encore: She always presents herself very well and her team did a terrific job packaging her. She is a complete skater from head to toe. Her admitted shortcoming has always been spinning. Sure, she may not be flashy with her flexibility or make you say "WOW!" when you see her layback spin or her spirals, but she finishes her positions very well and has good stretch within her limitations. She is such a musical skater and always showcases her strengths (power, speed, strong skating skills, transitions, and steady jumps) so well! Talking purely about skating ability (skating skills), if I could skate like any female skater in today's skating world, it would be a combination of Rochette, Carolina Kostner, and Yu-Na Kim. :)

Sulphur
07-13-2011, 06:24 AM
Joannie is an amazing skater and one of the best female skaters since 2000 in my opinion. She absolutely deserves her bronze at the Olympics, too. I used to think she has the goods to be a world medalist multiple times (five triples, decent spins, superb skating skills and speed) but she lets her nerves get to her, but that's before the 2010 Olympics. She's probably more mentally pressured than anyone at that competition and she eventually overcame all that. I admire her as a skater as well as a person.

walei
07-13-2011, 06:37 AM
IIRC Joannie was THIS CLOSE to get the silver had she land her 2axle.

blue_idealist
07-13-2011, 10:28 AM
Joannie's a good skater, but I would disagree that she is a good JUMPER. A lot of her landings are questionable (turning out, stepping out..) and even though she jumps all five triples, up until about the last couple of years they were not consistent. When she skates I still have to hold my breath on every jump wondering if she's going to fall or not, whereas when Yu-Na or Miki skate, I assume they're going to land the jump. However, Joannie is one of the best skaters out there artistry-wise right now.

Ozzisk8tr
07-13-2011, 10:49 AM
When I first saw Joannie skate the thing that struck me was her amazing posture. She didn't have that Miki Ando thing about flashing your ring at the audience, she stood up with the most beautiful carriage when she was stroking. Triple toe I think you have the whole thing about the posture 100% wrong, hers is one of the best.

antmanb
07-13-2011, 12:44 PM
I think she is an outstanding skaters. Her basic skating, edgework, ice coverage are all up there with the best IMO. Her jumping, as others have noted is also right up there. I personally give her many props for going back and sorting out the flutz, I don't think abny other skater has put that much work into reworking one jump. She has, again IMO, the best triple salchow out there.

The only thing I would say being nitpicky is that she sometimes looked stiff in the upper body. She had great posture and lines but sometimes the upper body looked too stiff.

miki88
07-13-2011, 01:35 PM
She is a great skater but I feel there's something missing, like an extra spark that makes her special. No matter how frustrating Nagasu can be at times, she has that quality when she's on. But kudos to her for attempting all of the triples sans the axel.

Amy03
07-13-2011, 04:52 PM
i agree she may have the jumps but something is lacking in her programs, I just simply don't see what's so great about her, even through she has been competing for so long i haven't see one program from her that gives the wow factor. but i have to say she is a very consistent skater..

BigB08822
07-14-2011, 03:14 AM
Joannie was a very solid #3 in Vancouver. She had what it takes to be #1 or #2 if Mao and Yu Na falter. I hope people don't look back at the results and think she only won a medal because of the location or because of pity from her mothers death.

shady82
07-14-2011, 06:34 AM
She's a very complete skater who has all the goods. What she lacks is the 'it' factor that gave skaters like Michelle or Sasha an edge, or the high-level jumping content of some of her contemporaries (Asada, Kim, Ando, Kostner). I think this is what she would have needed to climb to the very top. In this sense, I would consider her to be somewhat stronger Suguri, and a little bit weaker than Arakawa.