PDA

View Full Version : How good is Joannie Rochette as a skater?



Pages : 1 2 [3] 4

Jenna
07-18-2011, 05:30 AM
Yeah, I've gotta agree with that, I always found her rather inconsistent, at least up until the last two seasons she competed..

For that matter, when has the word consistent and a Canadian lady skater ever appeared in the same sentence? :P

Japanfan
07-18-2011, 06:06 AM
For that matter, when has the word consistent and a Canadian lady skater ever appeared in the same sentence? :P

I did say 'relative' consistency. :) I mean, take a look at the current state of Canadian ladies and the sub-par performances of the final flight at Worlds.

Top Ten Jen Robinson is probably the most consistent lady Canada has had in the past 20 years. Unfortunately she didn't have much else - no offense intended, she was, as they say 'a good ambassador for the sport'.

judgejudy27
07-18-2011, 01:02 PM
Here I disagree. She didn't become GFP champion with poor skills. Her spins are the best in the world and when she is on, her jumps are fine. She's not as powerful as a skater as Joannie, but she has a soulful, gentle quality which elicits the wow factors.

She became GPF champion since she had the competition of her life, the field was incredibly weak, and Ando who easily won the LP skating first had bombed the SP. Dont get me wrong, I was very happy for her when it happened. Czisny couldnt even medal at Worlds despite again being close to her best in the season of her career, and it being arguably the worst womens Worlds in skating history.

I like Czisny alot and enjoy her skating, but she is not a better skater than Joannie. The only thing she does better is spins and spirals. If both skated their best Joannie would crush Czisny.

b-man
07-18-2011, 08:19 PM
She became GPF champion since she had the competition of her life, the field was incredibly weak, and Ando who easily won the LP skating first had bombed the SP. Dont get me wrong, I was very happy for her when it happened. Czisny couldnt even medal at Worlds despite again being close to her best in the season of her career, and it being arguably the worst womens Worlds in skating history.

I like Czisny alot and enjoy her skating, but she is not a better skater than Joannie. The only thing she does better is spins and spirals. If both skated their best Joannie would crush Czisny.

True, Czisny didn't medal at worlds, but Rochette had but a single medal in seven appearances, not such an exemplary record. And her path to an entry at worlds was much easier than Czisny, which gave her greater international exposure and more chances to leave positive impressions with international judges.

Jammers
07-18-2011, 09:50 PM
Yes Joannie was great in Vancouver but overall she wasn't that great.Yes she could be great but she was inconsistent. Mira for instance was much more accomplished at 16 then Joannie was. It took till she was 21 to finish higher at Worlds then Mirai did for instance. Let's face it Mirai would be going to Worlds every year if she faced the competition Joannie did in Canada.

Skate Talker
07-18-2011, 10:03 PM
Joannie was an early bloomer but then took the extra-ordinary step of re-working all her jumps which took her out of the game for a couple of years before she started showing the results. Unfortunately imho it took the judges quite a while to catch on to the quality of her skating after that and she had to fight hard to get their attention. I have nothing but admiration for her and the difficult path she took.

Proustable
07-19-2011, 01:27 AM
Flatt accomplished more by sixteen than Rochette. So did Caroline Zhang. Would you argue they're better skaters as well.

Marco
07-19-2011, 03:42 AM
Rochette is a great skater, but not without her weaknesses. Her spins for example tend to slow down quite evidently and are quite dull. Her jumping technique, jump quality, edge quality and ability to display complex choreography on the other hand are quite amazing.

She was clearly in medal contention going into Vancouver with Ando and Kostner. Everyone else had an outside shot only. Then Kostner bombed and Ando skated conservatively in the free and that was that. If Nagasu had skated better internationally that season she might be a threat for the bronze. And if Lepisto had done a 3/3 instead of 3/2 in the short I probably would have given her the bronze. So, she earned her bronze, but not without some luck and politiking on her side.

skfan
07-19-2011, 04:21 AM
i don't see the argument that joannie's skating is weaker than alissa's. i could care less about the medal counts--for me, joannie's skating (in general) has much more speed, power, emotional conviction, connection with the audience. joannie also has a wider emotional / theatrical range.

i don't find alissa's spins as amazing as other posters do, because even though her spins are fast they don't strike beautiful positions a la sasha cohen, and since i'm an MK fan i'm used to weak spins LOL i'll give up the spins for a sense that the skater is truly _with_ the music. joannie and akiko are the ladies in recent years whose musical interpretation and connection to the audience impressed me, so i must stick up for joannie here :)

leafygreens
07-20-2011, 02:37 AM
Czisny couldnt even medal at Worlds despite again being close to her best in the season of her career, and it being arguably the worst womens Worlds in skating history.

Czisny's placement was just wrong. She should have been 3rd or at least 4th. She only messed up one jump in the whole competition, which is a lot less than people placing above her. Everything else about her was superb. Way undermarked.


i don't find alissa's spins as amazing as other posters do, because even though her spins are fast they don't strike beautiful positions a la sasha cohen,

I love Sasha but I have to disagree that she has beautiful positions in any of her non-flexy spins. Alissa's camel has a beautiful arched position - a lot better than Sasha's.

pinky166
07-20-2011, 03:43 AM
Czisny's placement was just wrong. She should have been 3rd or at least 4th. She only messed up one jump in the whole competition, which is a lot less than people placing above her. Everything else about her was superb. Way undermarked.


Well, it made sense, for me, the 3, 4, 5 places were a toss up, and considering Worlds were in Russia and Kostner is always rewarded when she skates well and has lots of hardware on her side, I'm not surprised Alissa ended up 5th.

Marco
07-20-2011, 04:22 AM
Well, Kostner's flip in the short should also have been downgraded and her pop of the loop in the free was and should have been much more costly than Czisny's fall on the lutz. Kostner was not that much faster than Czisny at that competition, but Czisny did have much better spins and harder triples. All things considered I would probably have given it to Czisny too. IMO Leonova was a solid 5th.

Japanfan
07-20-2011, 06:06 AM
Czisny's placement was just wrong. She should have been 3rd or at least 4th. She only messed up one jump in the whole competition, which is a lot less than people placing above her. Everything else about her was superb. Way undermarked.


I'd have to rewatch the competition, but I didn't have a wuzrobbed sense and IIRC, she took herself out of medal contention in the SP?



I love Sasha but I have to disagree that she has beautiful positions in any of her non-flexy spins. Alissa's camel has a beautiful arched position - a lot better than Sasha's.

Alissa is a much better spinner than Sasha IMO - one of the best in the world. Yes, Sasha always struck beautiful positions. But there more to a good spin than just that.

burntBREAD
07-20-2011, 04:18 PM
I'd have to rewatch the competition, but I didn't have a wuzrobbed sense and IIRC, she took herself out of medal contention in the SP?



Alissa is a much better spinner than Sasha IMO - one of the best in the world. Yes, Sasha always struck beautiful positions. But there more to a good spin than just that.

Alissa was 4th after the SP, definitely within striking distance, her only mistake in the SP was edge call on the flip and a forward landing.

shine
07-21-2011, 02:58 AM
Yes Joannie was great in Vancouver but overall she wasn't that great.Yes she could be great but she was inconsistent. Mira for instance was much more accomplished at 16 then Joannie was. It took till she was 21 to finish higher at Worlds then Mirai did for instance. Let's face it Mirai would be going to Worlds every year if she faced the competition Joannie did in Canada.

:confused: And Joannie has indeed been to every Worlds since 2003 too.

And every one has a different growing curve. Being successful at a young age is good, but it doesn't mean having success a little later on is worth less.