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Spartacus
07-11-2011, 07:11 PM
So, because some has been robbed in the past, it's not a problem to rob in the future ? ^^

Anyway, I don't think B&S's skate was poor and sloppy, and I don't think S&P won fair and square.
You have your opinion and I have mine (http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3232454#post3232454). :D

DarrellH
07-11-2011, 07:42 PM
I don't think previous competitions are relevent. Plushenko was the only one who did those jumps at the Olympics in 2010 in the same programs. And those judges there said it was worth silver.


Then Tim Goebel should be a gold medalist?

Cheylana
07-11-2011, 09:05 PM
You're talking about fans, not judges.
I'm talking about people who disagree with the judges' PCS determinations. If figuring out PCS was so easy, then why do so many people whine and complain that the judges got it wrong?

ETA - For example, Patrick Chan. His PCS marks are very controversial, especially vis-a-vis other skaters like Takahiko Kozuka. Some insist they are right; others say they are too high. But if the judges are applying clear rules, then who is anyone to say they got it wrong?

Cyn
07-11-2011, 09:33 PM
I think RumbleFish is implying that Skate Canada politiked HARD for Patrick Chan. Had they just let Chan do his stuff and win without the supposed inflated mark through politiks, the judges might give the Gold to V/M?

This is what I'm understanding is from reading RumbleFish's posts, not what I think did happen.

I think you're dead on the money as far as RumbleFish's thought process (not that he/she/it has much of a mind to process anything other than their own blinding biases), but you get my point.

Triple Butz
07-11-2011, 10:21 PM
I'm talking about people who disagree with the judges' PCS determinations. If figuring out PCS was so easy, then why do so many people whine and complain that the judges got it wrong?

ETA - For example, Patrick Chan. His PCS marks are very controversial, especially vis-a-vis other skaters like Takahiko Kozuka. Some insist they are right; others say they are too high. But if the judges are applying clear rules, then who is anyone to say they got it wrong?

Judges don't always "apply clear rules" hence the reason this thread exists.

Cheylana
07-11-2011, 11:14 PM
Judges don't always "apply clear rules" hence the reason this thread exists.
We are going in circles now, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

museksk8r
07-11-2011, 11:24 PM
Didn't you post this (http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3231152&postcount=6) already? :shuffle:

Ugh, the forum wouldn't allow me to simply edit/add on to my post, so I ended up having to quote my earlier post with my additions. :slinkaway

Proustable
07-12-2011, 01:36 AM
1. I've heard politicking as an excuse to virtually every victory. I heard people cry politicking when V/M won the OGM (assuming it was a trade for Lysacek). So tend to shrug my shoulders a little bit when I hear that as a justification, Rumble Fish. But hey, I'm a V/M fanboy so thoroughly that I'm fine with people thinking they were robbed! Also a Canadian, so two medalists? Fine with me. Though truthfully, I thought that the Shibs were better overall than W/P.

2. I don't think either pair won gold in SLC "fair and square." It could have gone either way, fairly. It went one way, unfairly.

shady82
07-12-2011, 04:50 AM
The PCS mark, as well as the former presentation mark, both had specific criteria. That can't be argued with.

The issue is that both of these marks are given with reputation in mind. Too often I see skaters being given PCS scores that are similar for all five categories. This is obviously not reflective of the skater's actual achievement in program components. Some skaters may have strong skating skills but little interpretive skill. While reputation does not completely determine scores, it does play a role.

For example, I remember the relative PCS scores at the 2006 US Nationals Ladies' SP. The PCS scores for the top 5, from highest to lowest, were Cohen, Czisny, Meissner, Hughes, then finally Liang. The scores here had more to do with the skaters' favor with the federation and/or other groups, and less with their actual presentation. How in the world did Liang get lower PCS for that performance than Meissner got?

shady82
07-12-2011, 04:56 AM
Sale singled her double axel. This program was more sophisticated than Love Story with a lot more interesting in-between moves. Not that it counted like it would have in early COP years but this program also had a second death spiral and harder lifts.

B&S crashed the 3 twist, Anton had a small step-out on their sequence, and their throw loop was anything but steady. They also received a lot of criticism during the year for the middle of their Chaplin program for the huge pause/rest period.
I loved this program but had to agree that their step sequence really didn't come off as a step sequence.

It really could have gone either way and the momentum was with S&P for the year who had won other events (GPF) with poorer skates.

For 2001 Worlds, I personally thought B/S should have won overall even if S/P beat them in the freeskate. Sale's fall in the SP wasn't penalized enough - I thought they should have finished below 3rd after the short. Either way, Tristan & Isolde was a great program, and their FP was skated very well.

icellist
07-12-2011, 08:59 AM
rewatched SP and LP for ladies 2008 worlds

My thoughts:
Gold - Yukari Nakano
Silver - Mao Asada
Bronze - Joannie Rochette

I would have given Carolina Kostner negative GOE for her shaky landings and Yuna was propped by the judges. (Maybe just me because i hated Yuna's costumes that year i was so distracted by it XD)

But seriously, how to Yukari not make it to the podium that year...

usually for ice dance, IMO, the judges have a set podium in mind and rearrange it slightly depending on performance (or not)

Lookingood
07-12-2011, 01:51 PM
Yuna didnt get propped up by Judges in 2008 world,IMO more like Overscored for Kostner and underscored for Nakano.

Frau Muller
07-12-2011, 03:11 PM
1976 US Nationals, Senior Ladies. As much as I love Dorothy Hamill, Linda Fratianne absolutely deserved gold above Hamill in that particular competition.

Marco
07-12-2011, 05:00 PM
rewatched SP and LP for ladies 2008 worlds

My thoughts:
Gold - Yukari Nakano
Silver - Mao Asada
Bronze - Joannie Rochette

I would have given Carolina Kostner negative GOE for her shaky landings and Yuna was propped by the judges. (Maybe just me because i hated Yuna's costumes that year i was so distracted by it XD)

But seriously, how to Yukari not make it to the podium that year...

usually for ice dance, IMO, the judges have a set podium in mind and rearrange it slightly depending on performance (or not)

I think I would have Yuna and Nakano gold and silver for 2008 Worlds, depending on how generous I want to be on some of Nakano's jumps. Asada's mistake in the free skate was very, very distracting and I would have her bronze at best.

olympic
07-12-2011, 09:17 PM
1976 US Nationals, Senior Ladies. As much as I love Dorothy Hamill, Linda Fratianne absolutely deserved gold above Hamill in that particular competition.

But, I think Linda was well back in the figures ,which precluded her from moving ahead of Dorothy under the scoring system at that time